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Is There Any Good Bookies These Days ?

tremblant said:
Just a question about oddschecker site do there odds apply to online only betting or do you get the same offers in the shops
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I told the story on here just a few weeks ago about when i called in a Hills shop (i cant get on online) one Sunday when they were betting really early on a few races for the following day. I was told that i couldnt have the price showing on the website because the online business was separate from the shops.
 
On a slightly different note, the answer to the OP is NO, there is not and also NO, there never will be any more !
The "bookmakers" are squealing about how much money it is gonna cost them because of the near doubling of the remote gaming duty but rather than sit down and think of POSITIVE ways to improve other areas of the business, they are just gonna reduce (or in some cases stop) sponsorship and marketing etc.
And one obvious way ( apart from the oh so obvious one of actually taking a decent bet and not having a Spanish Inquisition every time someone wanted more than £8.27 on) would be to try and improve the shop business and try and coax/tempt punters back into them with, perhaps, shop only offers as against online only offers. To try and get their shop business back up to some sort of decent level.
But before you all ask, NO, i have not been drinking. Of course they wont do it. Every man and his dog know they wont. And the main reason why is because horse racing is too costly for them. It involves too much manpower in the various departments. It is a necessary evil. To them it is just a pain.
People to work in the trading room. People to work in the IT dept. Compilers (although that is not every firm, far, far from it). Marketing staff. People to work in the queries dept. Trading analysis (checking who is backing what, when and why. And who is joining in and do they do it every time). The advertising team. On course reps (:D) (They make me laugh. They genuinely think that everyone is as stupid as them).
And so on. There are more.
When the prices went up for tomorrows racing around 4.00 today, that was the start time to keep a close eye on every bet that came thru and from whom. And those prices will change over and over and over again. Contrast that to the Football prices that were put in yesterday for the weekends games. There will hardly be any movement. The same with the golf betting. And the tennis etc etc.

My guvnor said to me (and the other heads of depts who were at the Monday meeting) back around 2008/9 that if he could do away with horse racing and just concentrate on all the other sports and the casino stuff he would do it in a flash. Maybe slightly tongue in cheek but we all knew the cost of it all and the manpower involved and knew there was more than a hint of seriousness about his comment.
And bear in mind, that was around 17 years ago. How do you think he would feel now ????? (Rhetorical question :))

Dont ever be fooled by the firms who say they will always support racing and would never walk away. Total nonsense. The offers and concessions are fading fast and it isnt gonna get any better.
 
The aim of the "bookmakers" these days should be to try and tempt punters back into the shops. But since the Budget, the silence has been deafening. There must be many ways to coax them back thru offers, promotions etc that will boost turnover and in turn profits.
One they could try, and this links to something Tremblant was asking, is to maybe offer online prices in the shops later in the evening. If the prices go online around 4pm/4.30 time, they could maybe start putting them up in the shops from around 6.00 or 6.30. I know they are all running scared of early prices these days but if they give them a couple of hours to calm down a bit and also limit those bets to £20 or £25 , it will/should bring more business into the shops especially at a time when they are usually empty. And by limiting the bets to say a score, you wouldnt have to be the greatest risk manager in the world to be able to trade those prices accordingly as and when the bets come in. And of course when the shops close, its back to online only until the following morning. I know the £20 or £25 will seem a bit on the small side but to many, many punters, (and i would think a few on here), getting that sort of money on would be marvellous. And it would give a trader something to do rather than just having to switch the bot on each night.

Or they could try loyalty cards for a free price boost after a certain number of bets or even a cup of coffee. I do know that some shops have stopped their free drinks now so at least it would be something.

There are probably loads more ideas they could come up with if they tried but of course that depends on if they really want to push horse racing.

Anyway, i am not gonna do their job for them, my days of doing that are long gone and anyway, i've got my ironing to do. :)

Have a good day all.
 
Personally i tire of people moaning they can't get on it it always strikes me as someone pining over an ex or someone holding a grudge that consumes them for a long amount of time when they certainly do more harm to themselves than the person they hold a grudge against.

It never fails to amaze me that I see literally 100's of people online moaning about not being able to get on but in all my time online possibly 20 years I've only ever seen a handful of people who i'd could confidently say i'd know they'd be winning punters and would warrant having their accounts shut.

Bookies are free to operate how they like and whilst their profits grow and grow from a business perspective they are getting everything right. So long as there is a continued growth in the gaming sector and plenty of lads betting their accas on the coupons i really dont think they need horse racing anymore they certainly dont need the kind of punters who scan the overnights for ricks.

For a winning horse racing punter in general it's no good bemoaning what is, the only thing that matters is how you adapt going forward. I'd say no one has probably had more accounts closed than Slim but he finds ways to get on, has to accept what he can't have and get and still by the looks of it is finding a way to keep winning.

The other point is that when one business fails to provide a good service for it's customers it only opens up opportunity for another business to take its place. The best you can hope for is not that Bookmakers suddenly start giving punters a fairer deal but you'd hope in time there will be a complete overhaul of betting with either a pool system or tbh the Exchange should have been the future but for whatever reason it's never really cemented the take over.
 
Danny it probably suits you to bet the day of the race but Q.C is talking about the day before markets when that's the time the compliers make the ricks in the market but you don't have to be winning thousands just by spotting their ricks you are letting them know they will not win money of you long term so they minimise your stakes to buttons thats hardly fair when they have shown they will tale hundreds of thousands of you if you are clueless.
THE DAY BEFORE RACING I CAN HAVE O.49C E/W ON ANYTHING i WANT WITH LADBROKES AND CORALS.
 
The average punters are the plankton of the whole horse racing eco system, once they've been reduced enough due to various reasons then horse racing is fked.

Punters face such as
Indifference from the BHA and racing media, who only act if their comfortable existence is threatened
Bookies restricting anyone who they view as even a potential risk to the bottom line
A general level of disdain towards gambling from the current gov, who won't act against pernicious lottery scratch cards
Anti money laundering legislation being used by bookies to deny punters their winnings and are emboldened to demand private financial information equiv to a mortgage application
 
So let's pitch that idea to a bookmaker. All we want is to able to be able to get as much as we want on when we know you've made an error on a price. Bookie "sure no problem!".

It doesn't suit me to bet on the day and I fully understand the effect of account closures. Wouldn't it be lovely to be able to get overnight prices indefinitely. Fact is nobody can for long. Bookies are not going to reverse that. So what im saying is don't bemoan it. You can either adapt and win or pack the game up those are the realistic options to anyone who's worn out their overnight welcome.

Problem is most people who've survived on overnights and seeing what's already half a dozen clicks north with a firm that's their only trick. Once it's gone they are in no mans land. Accept what it is and either adapt or move on. Or you can just keep telling everyone your accounts are limited and wear it as some sort of online badge of honour.

As for not fair, jesus wept!
 
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I completely agree with Danny - what has fairness got to do with anything in business?

I should imagine bookmakers don't think it's fair that people like me only ever wanna bet with them when they've got a price wrong and that's why I quite understand why I've had about 15 accounts, restricted or closed down in recent years.

Moaning is just childish and pointless - when you hit an obstacle you find a way to get around it.
 
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Danny said:
So let's pitch that idea to a bookmaker. All we want is to able to be able to get as much as we want on when we know you've made an error on a price. Bookie "sure no problem!".

It doesn't suit me to bet on the day and I fully understand the effect of account closures. Wouldn't it be lovely to be able to get overnight prices indefinitely. Fact is nobody can for long. Bookies are not going to reverse that. So what im saying is don't bemoan it. You can either adapt and win or pack the game up those are the realistic options to anyone who's worn out their overnight welcome.

Problem is most people who've survived on overnights and seeing what's already half a dozen clicks north with a firm that's their only trick. Once it's gone they are in no mans land. Accept what it is and either adapt or move on. Or you can just keep telling everyone your accounts are limited and wear it as some sort of online badge of honour.
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yep as with many things in life , things change and you have to adapt
 

The post office manager who stole €1.75m and lost it all​


I know business and life is not fair but as the above punter had not a clue about punting he was left alone to lose all that money from powers yet they are let close others accounts for just being savvy.
Surely that's profiling .........Idiots and savvy (joke btw)
 
In the time since my last post, I've had to use literally five bookmakers to get a bet on which wasn't even 20% of my maximum on a horse.

That's my life with virtually every bet, every day.

I could incessantly moan about it, but I'd get sick of the sound of my own voice (ok, that could never happen, but as close as it gets!) on the subject, so I confine myself to the occasional sarcastic remark.

But I'm far from alone, there are many who can beat the books by cherrypicking prices - bookies have to put up prices, punters don't have to bet, that's an edge in itself.

Any bookie who knows what they're doing cultivates the losers, gets rid of the winners and plays the punter, not the bet.

It's not personal, it's business - yes, it's irritating, but so is the weather sometimes and bleating about it won't fix that either.
 
Ian_Davies said:
In the time since my last post, I've had to use literally five bookmakers to get a bet on which wasn't even 20% of my maximum on a horse.

That's my life with virtually every bet, every day.

I could incessantly moan about it, but I'd get sick of the sound of my own voice (ok, that could never happen, but as close as it gets!) on the subject, so I confine myself to the occasional sarcastic remark.

But I'm far from alone, there are many who can beat the books by cherrypicking prices - bookies have to put up prices, punters don't have to bet, that's an edge in itself.

Any bookie who knows what they're doing cultivates the losers, gets rid of the winners and plays the punter, not the bet.

It's not personal, it's business - yes, it's irritating, but so is the weather sometimes and bleating about it won't fix that either.
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If you are that eager to get the bet on, it must be a decent fancy....
 
luckyme said:

The post office manager who stole €1.75m and lost it all​


I know business and life is not fair but as the above punter had not a clue about punting he was left alone to lose all that money from powers yet they are let close others accounts for just being savvy.
Surely that's profiling .........Idiots and savvy (joke btw)
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I guarantee you they wouldn't be able to do that again. The bookmakers have had to adjust from their predatory ways. I had a front row seat to what went on in the industry over a ten year period.
 
The theme of the posts has been about how the firms can move their shop business forward and not really about moaning about the fact that people cant get on. That has been done to death over the years and will never change. Shop business is down and shop numbers are down and that will continue until they get their act together and try and stop the decline. But i see no evidence of that. They all seem quite content to let them carry on as they are. And that is glorified amusement arcades.
 
There will be relatively no retail shops in Ireland in ten years time. Rents and costs are at an all time high and turnover is at record lows.

The terminals will survive, over the counter betting won't.
 
Quixall Crossett said:
The theme of the posts has been about how the firms can move their shop business forward and not really about moaning about the fact that people cant get on. That has been done to death over the years and will never change. Shop business is down and shop numbers are down and that will continue until they get their act together and try and stop the decline. But i see no evidence of that. They all seem quite content to let them carry on as they are. And that is glorified amusement arcades.
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I go into a local shop 2-3 times a week, and very rarely that there are more than 5 or 6 people in at a time, and of these 3 are glued to FOBT's.
The older punters(40+) will be studying form, having a bit of banter and the younger punters are more interested in the FOBT's with the odd dog/horse bet when they can tear themselves away from the machines.
I dont know how you can fix that and make the shop more enticing IMHO its more of a generational thing.
 
There is one particular football bet which a specific bookmaker is over generous with occasionally so I periodically make a visit to a branch of said firm.

I resent the fuel money to drive there and back (twice if I win), I resent having briefly to be in the same postal district as some of its habituees and I always wipe my feet on the way OUT.

However, I do enjoy protecting my anonymity with a variety of cunning disguises.

Last time I went in as Henry VIII (lots of padding) to place my bet and returned as Bill Ward (the drummer of Black Sabbath who had a beard you could lose a badger in) to get paid out.

My whole life is just one continual episode of Mr Benn, on permanent loop, tbh.
 
notsodancingbrave said:
I go into a local shop 2-3 times a week, and very rarely that there are more than 5 or 6 people in at a time, and of these 3 are glued to FOBT's.
The older punters(40+) will be studying form, having a bit of banter and the younger punters are more interested in the FOBT's with the odd dog/horse bet when they can tear themselves away from the machines.
I dont know how you can fix that and make the shop more enticing IMHO its more of a generational thing.
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And i totally agree. I seem to think we are arguing the same point here.
I dont know how they can fix it. The real question is, do they want to fix it !
From nearly 10,000 shops 8-10 years ago, i think we are down to less than 6,000 now. And it will keep falling. The point i was trying to make, although it seems to have turned into moaning about not getting on which is old, old news, is that how do they go about fixing it if that is what they actually want to do.

And yes, it is a generational thing. That is why i cringe every time i hear about these different racing groups go on about how they are going to attract the younger generation to the game. It is NOT gonna happen. There is too much going on these days for the young ones to get totally immersed in the game. Yes they might go for a day or two in the summer on the piss on a pub outing but you will not find them at Sedgefield today stood round the paddock watching the horses go round nor will you find them at Fontwell on Monday or Leicester on Wednesday or anywhere else for that matter.
 
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Ian_Davies said:
There is one particular football bet which a specific bookmaker is over generous with occasionally so I periodically make a visit to a branch of said firm.

I resent the fuel money to drive there and back (twice if I win), I resent having briefly to be in the same postal district as some of its habituees and I always wipe my feet on the way OUT.

However, I do enjoy protecting my anonymity with a variety of cunning disguises.

Last time I went in as Henry VIII (lots of padding) to place my bet and returned as Bill Ward (the drummer of Black Sabbath who had a beard you could lose a badger in) to get paid out.

My whole life is just one continual episode of Mr Benn, on permanent loop, tbh.
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And on that note, this just shows how ridiculous it has become these days.
I called into a Betfred shop around 10.00 this morning and as i walked past the counter one of the staff asked, "Dont i know you from somewhere. Were you in our Middlesbrough shop yesterday " ? So i told her that i had never had a bet in that shop and i hadnt been in Middlesbrough for a couple of months. I also told her i spent most of yesterday in Northallerton and that i didnt go in their shop while i was there either.

But it still didnt stop her whispering to her mate and pointing in my direction a few minutes later.

So much for politeness, manners and exceptional customer service.

Now where were we again ? Oh yes, firms trying to entice more people into the shops. :unsure::(
 
Ian Davies, did you mean Mr Bean?

It’s certainly that case that there is so much going on today that youngsters can gamble on instead of horses. I can remember when every pub had a ‘runner’ and we would keep trying out exotic multiple bets to confuse him.
 

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