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The Official Constitution Hill Thread 2025/26

Ian_Davies said:
Sea Pigeon won the Ebor off top weight and broke the clock in the process - he also won two Chester Cups and a stack of other races.
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I am fairly sure that he never won a Listed or Group race on the Flat. Seventh in the 1973 Derby when trained by Jeremy Tree? He's from the time before I got interested in horse racing.

Is it possible to give Constitution Hill a provisional Flat rating after that race? The hard-pulling Gambino was rated 83 and beaten around 11 lengths.
 
Typically my Betfair crashed as it went off so I was forced to watch the catch-up. Never in doubt and it was good to see him enjoy himself. Will help his confidence enormously....BUT I still wouldn't risk him back over hurdles.

Was talking to a friend yesterday (been away for a week at Pointing meeting and funeral) and neither of us could remotely see him getting beaten. As friend said, these top class NH horses can have bags of speed regardless of the code they are running under. We've both ridden good horses both Flat and NH and a G1 NH can more than hold it's own working against quality Flat horses so why not on the course.
 
Jayhawk said:
I am fairly sure that he never won a Listed or Group race on the Flat.
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Neither has Constitution Hill....yet.

Sea Pigeon ran in races like the Craven as well as The Derby as a 3yo but, once gelded, opportunities on the Flat were pretty much limited to Handicaps for him.

His Ebor win was outstanding at the weights and I'm reliably told the time was off Timeform's scale.

Such a shame there is no footage of it (ITV cameramen on strike).
 
granger said:
Hopefully this doesn't start a craze of running nh horses on whatever type of racing this is called
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Moscow Flyer ran in the Charity race at Punchestown Festival end, breaking the course record if memory recalls.
Even Arkle won a flat maiden (Darkie Prendergast said he'd win a Cesarewitch off top weight, given the chance.)
Cottage Rake, Hatton's Grace, Knock Hard, Alverton all high class flat performers .
Nicky hardly reinventing the wheel; remember he had no all weather option for See You Then.
 
Some bizarre reaction to all this - quite apart from the likes of Sea Pigeon (and even Arkle) the horse broke new ground tonight by winning on a surface that wasn't around in the UK back in the day.

I thought it was tremendous and shows that, essentially, racehorses are racehorses and for "Jumps bred" read "bred to be a late developer relative to 'Flat bred' horses."

Nothing wrong with dual purpose racehorses in my book - tonight was something different and you don't get a lot of that in racing.
 
Ian_Davies said:
Some bizarre reaction to all this - quite apart from the likes of Sea Pigeon (and even Arkle) the horse broke new ground tonight by winning on a surface that wasn't around in the UK back in the day.

I thought it was tremendous and shows that, essentially, racehorses are racehorses and for "Jumps bred" read "bred to be a late developer relative to 'Flat bred' horses."

Nothing wrong with dual purpose racehorses in my book - tonight was something different and you don't get a lot of that in racing.
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Ethical Diamond vs Constitution Hill at the Ebor or ambitiously the Breeders Cup Turf, would feed families!!!!
 
I Noticed on the final Furlough

Look at the gallop on CHill and compare that to the 2nd place Square Necker

Square Necker was almost Cantering and Constitution Hill was still Galloping like a horse possessed
 
edgt said:
Nearly 100 years ago Steve Donoghue rode Champion Hurdle winner Brown Jack to win at Ascot.
"Keep him on the flat ,he is too good for hurdling " Steve told the owners.
They did, now hardly anyone remembers Brown Jack as a Champion Hurdler.
Just wondering what Oisin will tell Ml Buckley ..
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Oisin said next target black type!
 
edgt said:
Moscow Flyer ran in the Charity race at Punchestown Festival end, breaking the course record if memory recalls.
Even Arkle won a flat maiden (Darkie Prendergast said he'd win a Cesarewitch off top weight, given the chance.)
Cottage Rake, Hatton's Grace, Knock Hard, Alverton all high class flat performers .
Nicky hardly reinventing the wheel; remember he had no all weather option for See You Then.
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Ssssshhhh
 
That was impressive tonight and lovely to see the turnout and affection for him
Now the question will be what path they take next whether champion hurdle or stay on the flat.
It did sound like the preferred the flat option . We will have to wait and see
But congrats to them tonight 👍

Vf x
 
edgt said:
Moscow Flyer ran in the Charity race at Punchestown Festival end, breaking the course record if memory recalls.
Even Arkle won a flat maiden (Darkie Prendergast said he'd win a Cesarewitch off top weight, given the chance.)
Cottage Rake, Hatton's Grace, Knock Hard, Alverton all high class flat performers .
Nicky hardly reinventing the wheel; remember he had no all weather option for See You Then.
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6 weeks after finishing third in the Galway Hurdle, the sainted Airlie Beach won the listed Oyster Stakes on the flat at the same venue.
 
tiggers1972 said:
That performance makes it more unlikely that he runs in the Champion Hurdle IMO.
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I agree.

Despite my longstanding cynical bet on him to never win another Champion Hurdle (with a saver on winning one more) struck a couple of years ago, I hadn't given much thought to what an easy win last night would mean.

I actually think they wouldn't want to risk sending the horse to his demise, or being viewed as having done that, and while he probably wouldn't fall at Cheltenham and, even if he did, probably not fatally, it's an outcome so horrendous (and not just for them, for UK Jump racing as a whole, given those three previous falls) they were always going to welcome a real Plan B.

I don't agree with those banging on about the Gold Cup, Queen Alexandra and other staying races - the horse barely gets 2m4f over hurdles - but at 1m4f, maybe 1m6f at a push, the opportunities are there.

The John Porter, the Ormonde and the Yorkshire Cup are just three spring possibilities off the top of my head and there will be others.

And later in the year (don't think they'd risk him on summer Flat racing ground with the word "Firm" in the going description) there are races like the Cumberland Lodge and the St Simon Stakes.

I don't think he's had to run to much above OR 100 (he was getting weight from the second and third) to do what he did last night, but he won easily and looks well up to Group 3 standard.

I doubt he'll run over hurdles again, but it's always possible while he's still in training and it'll be years before I get paid out - FML!
 
Ian_Davies said:
I agree.

Despite my longstanding cynical bet on him to never win another Champion Hurdle (with a saver on winning one more) struck a couple of years ago, I hadn't given much thought to what an easy win last night would mean.

I actually think they wouldn't want to risk sending the horse to his demise, or being viewed as having done that, and while he probably wouldn't fall at Cheltenham and, even if he did, probably not fatally, it's an outcome so horrendous (and not just for them, for UK Jump racing as a whole, given those three previous falls) they were always going to welcome a real Plan B.

I don't agree with those banging on about the Gold Cup, Queen Alexandra and other staying races - the horse barely gets 2m4f over hurdles - but at 1m4f, maybe 1m6f at a push, the opportunities are there.

The John Porter, the Ormonde and the Yorkshire Cup are just three spring possibilities off the top of my head and there will be others.

And later in the year (don't think they'd risk him on summer Flat racing ground with the word "Firm" in the going description) there are races like the Cumberland Lodge and the St Simon Stakes.

I don't think he's had to run to much above OR 100 (he was getting weight from the second and third) to do what he did last night, but he won easily and looks well up to Group 3 standard.

I doubt he'll run over hurdles again, but it's always possible while he's still in training and it'll be years before I get paid out - FML!
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https://twitter.com/x/status/2025156341904330774

Speaking of

Timeform has given Constitution Hill a Provisional rating of 106. That’s straight into Graded Races (hot take, Grade sounds cooler than Group, sue me)
 
Wouldn't you just school the horse as per usual snd if he jumps fine you run at Cheltenham. I had to check the distance of the race in Saudi Arabia that Sons And Ladders won this month. It's worth €2.1m but it's over 1m 7f. That would be a far better target than the Ascot Gold Cup.
 
Slim said:
Wouldn't you just school the horse as per usual snd if he jumps fine you run at Cheltenham. I had to check the distance of the race in Saudi Arabia that Sons And Ladders won this month. It's worth €2.1m but it's over 1m 7f. That would be a far better target than the Ascot Gold Cup.
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He always “schools” well over hurdles at home. But he keeps clouting them on a racecourse.

Great performance last night - why would his owner even think of endangering the horse, by sending him back over hurdles? There’s more money to be earned on the flat, and there’s a still a great redemptive story to be told!
 
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It was great to see him win last night but realistically his only chance of (notable) success on the flat is in the Ebor. I'd wonder if he'd get the trip for the Ascot Gold Cup, and even if he did I really don't think he'd be good enough to challenge the likes of Trawlerman.

He would still be more competitive over hurdles
 

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