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Kempton Park, "change" and "tradition"

DO is spot on. Money is what it is ALL about. And i certainly dont buy this idea that if they move the five furlong race from Saturday or move the Coronation Cup or move whatever race to another day that it will entice people to go.
The plain and simple fact is that it does not matter what supporting races are run on the day, if people cant afford £55 (advance ticket) to get in (£85 on the day), or just refuse to pay that much, it doesnt matter what races are run that day, they just cant/wont pay. And bear in mind, they are the cheapest tickets apart from if you want to stand on the hill half a mile from home and pay £30 !! (o £40 on the day)

Racing thinks too highly of itself. That clown David Armstrong from the racecourse association is always churning out the same old line when asked why admission/drinks/food prices are so high at the tracks. He comes out with, "They are comparable with other major sporting events".
Racing is NOT, i repeat NOT, a major sporting event ! Grand National, yes. Cheltenham Gold Cup, yes, The Derby, yes, Royal Ascot too. But would you class Uttoxeter today as a "major sporting event" ? It wont even get a single line or a mention in many newspapers. Same as Wolverhampton tomorrow. And Fakenham on Sunday etc etc.
Racing needs to get its house in order and quickly and realise where exactly it is in the food chain. The upper class snobbishness will be the death of it.
 
Slim said:
"Lucky enough to have been a guest in a private box".

I've been in private boxes and theyvsre absolutely shit. You couldn't hand pick worse people to be stuck in a room with.
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I'll second that. And thats one of the problems. I had to hand pick ones to invite to the box on various occasions but my hands were basically tied. If it had been up to me none of them would have got in.

Again, money (habitual losers) talks.
 
Quixall Crossett said:
DO is spot on. Money is what it is ALL about. And i certainly dont buy this idea that if they move the five furlong race from Saturday or move the Coronation Cup or move whatever race to another day that it will entice people to go.
The plain and simple fact is that it does not matter what supporting races are run on the day, if people cant afford £55 (advance ticket) to get in (£85 on the day), or just refuse to pay that much, it doesnt matter what races are run that day, they just cant/wont pay. And bear in mind, they are the cheapest tickets apart from if you want to stand on the hill half a mile from home and pay £30 !! (o £40 on the day)

Racing thinks too highly of itself. That clown David Armstrong from the racecourse association is always churning out the same old line when asked why admission/drinks/food prices are so high at the tracks. He comes out with, "They are comparable with other major sporting events".
Racing is NOT, i repeat NOT, a major sporting event ! Grand National, yes. Cheltenham Gold Cup, yes, The Derby, yes, Royal Ascot too. But would you class Uttoxeter today as a "major sporting event" ? It wont even get a single line or a mention in many newspapers. Same as Wolverhampton tomorrow. And Fakenham on Sunday etc etc.
Racing needs to get its house in order and quickly and realise where exactly it is in the food chain. The upper class snobbishness will be the death of it.
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That's circa £30 to £80 entrance fees before you factor in travel costs and inflated food/drink prices on course, without even placing a bet.

They're totally pricing themselves out of the market, especially for potential new blood in their 20s , most of whom won't be earning big money.
 
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Quixall Crossett said:
I'll second that. And thats one of the problems. I had to hand pick ones to invite to the box on various occasions but my hands were basically tied. If it had been up to me none of them would have got in.

Again, money (habitual losers) talks.
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Oh my God. Your last line literally nails my experience of it.
 
Kempton for me is now a pretty soulless place. As soon as they ripped out the turf Flat course, I felt it became that. The JC have no interest in it whatsoever.

As for the Derby, I'd be all for making it a Super Saturday if you want to keep it on that day. The Derby, Oaks, Coronation Cup, the Dash, a 2yo group race and a top class 1m 2f handicap. And market the crap out of it. But also make the inner part of the course, a very cheap fun area with stalls, trade stands, entertainment - get those rows of open top buses back. If it's got to compete with other sports on that day, make it something that everyone HAS to go to.
 
jinnyj said:
Kempton for me is now a pretty soulless place. As soon as they ripped out the turf Flat course, I felt it became that. The JC have no interest in it whatsoever.

As for the Derby, I'd be all for making it a Super Saturday if you want to keep it on that day. The Derby, Oaks, Coronation Cup, the Dash, a 2yo group race and a top class 1m 2f handicap. And market the crap out of it. But also make the inner part of the course, a very cheap fun area with stalls, trade stands, entertainment - get those rows of open top buses back. If it's got to compete with other sports on that day, make it something that everyone HAS to go to.
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Yes. MARKET THE SHIT OUT OF IT!
Especially the Calandagan Masquerade Ball Rematch at the King George Stakes
 
Slim said:
"Lucky enough to have been a guest in a private box".

I've been in private boxes and theyvsre absolutely shit. You couldn't hand pick worse people to be stuck in a room with.
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You're not wrong - I've enjoyed a decent enough lunch and a decent view, but I often literally had to step outside and go for a walk because the alternative would have been confrontation with some random bloke - who was a tool when he arrived and an even bigger one after a drink - to the mortification of my host.
 
When the original 'Kempton closing' story started up, I seem to remember being in the minority on here in not really caring as long as the incoming money was used to promote racing across the board rather than piling more money in at the top end.

I'll admit to not having been for a few years now but featureless and bland would be my best description of the course. A nothing experience both as a paying punter and an owner.

In terms of the King George itself, I do think that there should be a right-handed G1 3m chase and either Sandown or Ascot would be fine. I would look at having the Tingle Creek meeting at Christmas and incorporating those races from Kempton that are worth saving.
 
My only visit to Kempton was with three women.I was in charge of the punting kitty -backed 6 consecutive seconds and had one of the women bitching about my punting strategy after the First race.
 
The King George doesnt exist anywhere else as far as im concerned. Theyre keeping the AW going, so theres no justification for it, its not like the whole place is going under. It just sounds like greed - "300 acres ripe for development". Its not in the best interest of racing as claimed.

As for the Derby, the solution looks obvious. They only have enough good races for one day, and it should probably be run on the Wednesday. I never considered copying the US points qualification model but thats a good idea for the Oaks and Derby.

I think the case for dropping them back to 10f is only getting stronger. There just isn't enough top class stayers being produced, and Coolmore have a near monopoly on them. It feels like a closed shop, whereas in America for example, everyone goes to the sales believing they have a chance of buying a Derby winner.

As a traditionalist its sacrilege and from a selfish punting perspective its not in my interest as I like being able to write off horses who wont stay. If you drop it back to 10f, suddenly every Kingman, Lope De Vega, Dubawi, Night Of Thunder et al. needs consideration.

Theres no doubt it would make the race much more competitive, but studying antepost would become a nightmare, and thats my main enjoyment in racing these days.
 
archipenko said:
The King George doesnt exist anywhere else as far as im concerned. Theyre keeping the AW going, so theres no justification for it, its not like the whole place is going under. It just sounds like greed - "300 acres ripe for development". Its not in the best interest of racing as claimed.

As for the Derby, the solution looks obvious. They only have enough good races for one day, and it should probably be run on the Wednesday. I never considered copying the US points qualification model but thats a good idea for the Oaks and Derby.

I think the case for dropping them back to 10f is only getting stronger. There just isn't enough top class stayers being produced, and Coolmore have a near monopoly on them. It feels like a closed shop, whereas in America for example, everyone goes to the sales believing they have a chance of buying a Derby winner.

As a traditionalist its sacrilege and from a selfish punting perspective its not in my interest as I like being able to write off horses who wont stay. If you drop it back to 10f, suddenly every Kingman, Lope De Vega, Dubawi, Night Of Thunder et al. needs consideration.

Theres no doubt it would make the race much more competitive, but studying antepost would become a nightmare, and thats my main enjoyment in racing these days.
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I feel like putting it on a Wednesday won't be a good idea, middle of the working week, people probably wont be able to get days off for it. But I understand why you would
 
LUKE said:
My only visit to Kempton was with three women.I was in charge of the punting kitty -backed 6 consecutive seconds and had one of the women bitching about my punting strategy after the First race.
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I have no interest in going to the races with a group who know fk all about it, you just know sooner or later you're going to hear "why we don't we just back all of them then we'll definitely win....". That is something I've overheard in groups I wasn't part of.

I don't mind taking one person and giving them a decent intro, and in the past have taken several girls out like that on dates, and many many moons ago one of them winning a few hundred due to a significant stroke of luck paid dividends for me as well.... ;-)
 
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pawras said:
I have no interest in going to the races with a group who know fk all about it, you just know sooner or later you're going to hear "why we don't we just back all of them then we'll definitely win....". That is something I've overheard in groups I wasn't part of.

I don't mind taking one person and giving them a decent intro, and in the past have taken several girls out like that on dates, and many many moons ago one of them winning a few hundred due to a significant stroke of luck paid dividends for me as well.... ;-)
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So I take it that the last one of the day wasn't a single
 
Similar reflections on Kempton, although any green space within the M25 should be protected at all costs.

A lot of stages have to be gone through before any homes can be built. Back in October I went down to see what is left of Folkestone. Surprisingly it's still very much in tact:
.

Since it closed in 2012 there's been a plan to build a whole new town on top of it, but I gather Homes England haven't provided any funding so far. 2027 a likely start date.

I never got down there while it was going but think of horses like Hunt Ball and the Barney Curley / Big Mac / Luke Harvey episode. Apparently jockeys and trainers didn't like making the journey to that corner of the country, and when ARC bought it the land value was the selling point. Hopefully there's not too many more that follow.
 
WandererSkyLight said:
I feel like putting it on a Wednesday won't be a good idea, middle of the working week, people probably wont be able to get days off for it. But I understand why you would
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You obviously were not around when it was held on a Wednesday. People crowded around the course from start to finish, the hill bursting with people, open top buses lines all the way up the straight, not a blade of grass to be seen anywhere but on the track. It was like it was a bank holiday meeting. And the buzz was electric. People used to put lieu days in to watch the race and others just took a "sickie". It was a "free" day as far as sport went and didnt get lost in a busy Saturday. And for those of us who were running betting shops at the time, it was always an exiting day. Instead of it being just a mundane Wednesday as usual, it was as busy as hell and a full shop from opening up until after the last race. And as someone who both managed a shop and owned one as well, i can tell you that the difference between it being held on a Saturday instead of a Wednesday was remarkable. And NOT in a good way.

Would it help now if it was returned to a Wednesday. Maybe, maybe not. I personally think it would help a little but if anyone thinks that it could return to how it was back in the 70's, 80's, 90's etc then i think that is just very wishful thinking. The interest in the sport these days is not as strong as it was and the game is dying a slow and painful death. But of course they have to try something. And there is one simple solution. So simple that they would never dream of doing it.
Absolutely no need to even mention it.
 
I never liked the Derby being on a Wednesday because it was either a school/uni/work day.

If memory serves, it was a public holiday in the London area back in the day and it was half-expected that anyone who could go would go.

It would probably have been affordable back then too, both in terms of travel and entry. The first time I went to Hamilton (1973, my father took me for my 18th birthday) I think it cost £1 to get in. and the Tote bet in 10p/unit windows.

Moving it to the Saturday had nothing to do with it losing its popularity. Competition with other events, vast increases in costs of the day out and pressures on income for what were usually in those days one-earner larger families living in council houses once Thatcherism took over, all combined to divert it down the route of a luxury day out for those who really wanted to be there and who saved up for it like Christmas.

Nowadays a lot of racegoing is about networking; companies (big and small) making it a corporate event that they can put under business expenditure in their tax returns so, in effect, the taxpayer is funding their jollies.

I'm not sure if I'll ever set foot on a racecourse again. I always said I wouldn't mind going to a day at the Cheltenham festival just to say I've been there. Same with the Grand National and even royal Ascot. (Derby Day would never have entered my head.)

Now stuff like that doesn't really matter any more and I can, if I want to (and God willing/permitting) see it on the television.
 
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