History of Meynell Hunt point-to-point meetings at Ednaston Hall

[soonguy]

Please may I ask if anyone is familiar with Meynell Hunt history as it relates to their annual point-to-point meeting on a Saturday each April, in the earlier years of the 20th century at Ednaston Hall.

After WW2, the location moved to Aston and finally to Garthorpe. Although there are a number of photos available online, I can’t find much history documented anywhere.

I understand this was a steeplechase course over land which later became Darley Moor motorbike racing circuit, and would have been on the estate of Ednaston Hall. I’m guessing that it was primarily a local event, allowing people to bring their own hunters and test themselves and their horses competitively? Or was it only for true racehorses? Captain William Power of Hilton and Major William Winterbottom of Aston Hall and both pictured in 1913 photos of the point to point, and were likely running horses themselves. Both were members of the Derbyshire Yeomanry, mounted territorial infantry, who trained at an annual summer camp in the Chatsworth grounds.

Grateful thanks for any information.

Tony

 

[jinnyj]

Gosh there would have been people on the old Jumping for Fun Forum who would have definitely been able to answer this.

Gullible, can you remember who the history buffs on there were?

BTW, welcome to the forum, Tony!

 

[Gullible]

Jeremy Grayson, Man Of Europe, Maelstrom and perhaps Charlotte spring to mind

 

[jinnyj]

I imagine Jeremy is your man. He's a walking encyclopedia of Pointing. I will give him a bell via Facebook. Not sure if he was ever on here?

 

[The Fortune Teller]

I think he was.

His 'Look Who's Pointing' thread was the final thread he started?

 

[jinnyj]

Taken a few days but the ever brilliant Jeremy Grayson, who is literally the font of all knowledge when it comes to anything Pointing, has come back to me with this:

I can see from a quick perusal of the incredibly comprehensive fixture lists compiled by Michael Kutapan (Hanway2) on J4F that the Meynell meeting at Ednaston was a genuine point-to-point rather than a bona fide or military meeting, last run there in 1939, and that the fixture indeed relocated to Aston in 1947 (pointing resumed in part in 1946, but the Meynell returned only a year later for reasons presumably lost to time).Michael's research suggests that the Ednaston course was originally used from 1898 until 1914, and then again from 1929. The Meynell were using the course by 1914, and it was that hunt which revived it for those final years. What I'm not 100% sure on is whether the Meynell and the Meynell alone had used it during its original run, but given the conventions Michael uses throughout his lists I'd be inclined to think they did.

The layout was changed for the 1936 meeting.A Meynell Hunt fixture took place at Agardsley Park (a deer park near Ashbourne, I believe) in 1922, 1923, 1925 and 1926, and at Mickleover in 1927 and 1928. Where they raced for the other years between Ednaston's two tenures, if indeed they did, isn't recorded on J4F.Michael has further discovered that the Meynell did not host their own fixture between 1891 and 1897 inclusive, but did maintain a strong presence at some fixtures nominally run by other hunts, e.g. the 1897 renewal of the Dove Valley Harriers at Sturston Hall contained a Meynell Hunt Red Coat Race. They raced at Marchington, between Burton-on-Trent and Uttoxeter, in 1890. In answer to the enquirer's question about what sort of horses raced at a Meynell fixture, I think we can probably guess this wasn't an era of just racecourse-ready thoroughbreds, but the write-up for 1890 offers specifics: "The three events arranged were the Meynell Hunt Race, for horses the property of subscribers to the Meynell Hounds; a Yeomanry Race, for horses the property of owners, to be ridden by Non-commissioned Officers and Troopers of the Derbyshire and Staffordshire Yeomanry; and a Farmers' Race, for horses the property of bona fide tenant farmers residing within the limits of the Meynell Hunt, ridden by farmers or their sons".Sutton on The Hill, just two miles east of present-day trainer John Mackie's Church Broughton base, was the venue for the Meynell's 1889 fixture, which comprised just a hunt gentlemen's race and a cup for tenant farmers and Derbyshire Yeomanry Cavalry members.

There was no Meynell meeting in 1887 or 1888, and Michael hasn't as yet been able to record his findings for earlier than that, the lingering fallout from the British Library cyber attack of October 2023 continuing to limit progress.That's all I can offer, I think. I must reiterate than I can take zero credit for the above research (it's Michael's work from top to bottom), only for surfacing it without your enquirer having to do so themselves. Above and beyond this, I suppose the next thing to check would be whether C19th/early C20th points fall within the remit of William Morgan's ongoing lifetime's work Strongholds of Satan - a Survey of the Bygone Racecourses of Great Britain. Volume three covers the Midlands, to the tune of 952 pages and £90. A major outlay on what might be a fool's errand, so perhaps best to check whether anyone owning a copy can look up Ednaston for the enquirer!

Hope that helps?

 

[Gullible]

What a top bloke Jeremy is

 

[jinnyj]

What a top bloke Jeremy is

Isn't he! I have been to him in the past to ask for stats over ten seasons and he just bangs them out. Really top bloke and a lovely guy in person too.

 

[Gullible]

Looks like you have encouraged Jeremy back into the fold JinnyJ well done

 

[jinnyj]

Oh that would be great if he comes back. I can take a back seat as I am vastly inferior to what he knows about Pointing.

 

[Gullible]

Or anyone else on here JinnyJ and a modest person to boot

 

[soonguy]

Taken a few days but the ever brilliant Jeremy Grayson, who is literally the font of all knowledge when it comes to anything Pointing, has come back to me with this:

I can see from a quick perusal of the incredibly comprehensive fixture lists compiled by Michael Kutapan (Hanway2) on J4F that the Meynell meeting at Ednaston was a genuine point-to-point rather than a bona fide or military meeting, last run there in 1939, and that the fixture indeed relocated to Aston in 1947 (pointing resumed in part in 1946, but the Meynell returned only a year later for reasons presumably lost to time).Michael's research suggests that the Ednaston course was originally used from 1898 until 1914, and then again from 1929. The Meynell were using the course by 1914, and it was that hunt which revived it for those final years. What I'm not 100% sure on is whether the Meynell and the Meynell alone had used it during its original run, but given the conventions Michael uses throughout his lists I'd be inclined to think they did.

The layout was changed for the 1936 meeting.A Meynell Hunt fixture took place at Agardsley Park (a deer park near Ashbourne, I believe) in 1922, 1923, 1925 and 1926, and at Mickleover in 1927 and 1928. Where they raced for the other years between Ednaston's two tenures, if indeed they did, isn't recorded on J4F.Michael has further discovered that the Meynell did not host their own fixture between 1891 and 1897 inclusive, but did maintain a strong presence at some fixtures nominally run by other hunts, e.g. the 1897 renewal of the Dove Valley Harriers at Sturston Hall contained a Meynell Hunt Red Coat Race. They raced at Marchington, between Burton-on-Trent and Uttoxeter, in 1890. In answer to the enquirer's question about what sort of horses raced at a Meynell fixture, I think we can probably guess this wasn't an era of just racecourse-ready thoroughbreds, but the write-up for 1890 offers specifics: "The three events arranged were the Meynell Hunt Race, for horses the property of subscribers to the Meynell Hounds; a Yeomanry Race, for horses the property of owners, to be ridden by Non-commissioned Officers and Troopers of the Derbyshire and Staffordshire Yeomanry; and a Farmers' Race, for horses the property of bona fide tenant farmers residing within the limits of the Meynell Hunt, ridden by farmers or their sons".Sutton on The Hill, just two miles east of present-day trainer John Mackie's Church Broughton base, was the venue for the Meynell's 1889 fixture, which comprised just a hunt gentlemen's race and a cup for tenant farmers and Derbyshire Yeomanry Cavalry members.

There was no Meynell meeting in 1887 or 1888, and Michael hasn't as yet been able to record his findings for earlier than that, the lingering fallout from the British Library cyber attack of October 2023 continuing to limit progress.That's all I can offer, I think. I must reiterate than I can take zero credit for the above research (it's Michael's work from top to bottom), only for surfacing it without your enquirer having to do so themselves. Above and beyond this, I suppose the next thing to check would be whether C19th/early C20th points fall within the remit of William Morgan's ongoing lifetime's work Strongholds of Satan - a Survey of the Bygone Racecourses of Great Britain. Volume three covers the Midlands, to the tune of 952 pages and £90. A major outlay on what might be a fool's errand, so perhaps best to check whether anyone owning a copy can look up Ednaston for the enquirer!

Hope that helps?

Dear jinnyj and Jeremy

Thanks so much for the detailed history. Interesting and unsurprising to see that the Yeomanry had a special place in the races, being a Derbyshire territorial mounted infantry. The two people I am particularly interested in, for the Ednaston racing, are Major Power and Col Winterbottom. They appear in the bottom two photos of a page from The Sketch of April 1913, attending the Ednaston meeting. The photos 5 and 6 at the bottom are the Meynell point to points, with Captain Power DSO on left, and Major Winterbottom and his party on the right. (Sorry, I can't see a way of attaching this photo to my reply. Maybe it needs a new post on its own for image inclusion to work?) Both were key figures in the Derbyshire Yeomanry, a mounted territorial infantry, as well as being prominent figures in the county. Their new HQ at 91 Siddals Rd Derby was substantial and later became the TA Centre for Derby until the area was redeveloped in the 1970s. From aerial photos, it had a drill hall, parade area and what appear to be stables. I have been unable to find any ground-level photos of the centre.

Winterbottom, wealthy from the family Manchester business, had bought Aston Hall and become an instant squire. Power had a smaller though substantial villa in Hilton. Although he had served in the Boer War, been mentioned in despatches, and had the Queens Medal and a DSO, he only had the rank of Captain in 1909. Winterbottom was a major in 1909, yet only joined the Yeomanry in 1906. Maybe it rankled. Certainly, they were opponents in the following story!

As Yeomanry officers, they were both involved in the Yeomanry summer camp at Chatsworth in 1909 (and no doubt many other years. There was a cross country pursuit exercise whereby Power's squadron had a two-hour start to try and evade 'capture' by Winterbottom's pursuing squadron. With about 80 mounted Yeomanry, a horsedrawn ambulance and supply truck, Power sent a small contingent off north as a decoy. The main body went into Bakewell, and remarkably blagged a train ride down to Rowsley, complete with horses and vehicles, in a bid to outwit the pursuers, a story I have written up and you are welcome to have a copy.

Alamy, the stock photo people, have a number of inter-war photos of the Meynell point to points at Ednaston, though mainly pictures of high-profile individuals and groups of attendees rather than the actual races or wider setting. Note the one with a Miss Fowle showing a well-stocked luncheon hamper attached to the rear of the car! Search google for 'meynell hunt point to point alamy'.The results of this also show a programme cover and inner page for Aston event in 1951, currently on eBay. (There are a few other results you'll probably want cover your eyes for!)

Interestingly, the Meynell facebook page has just posted two very interesting photos of a special horsebox train run from Buxton to Burton-on-Trent, taking the High Peak Hunt to a joint meeting with the Meynell, presumably at some point not too far from either Burton or Sudbury. I wonder how common such special excursion trains were?

Thanks again for your help and wisdom

Best wishes

Tony

 

[jinnyj]

Absolute pleasure but it was all Jeremy.

Do feel free to get involved on here especially on the Point to Point section

 

[soonguy]

Absolute pleasure but it was all Jeremy.

Do feel free to get involved on here especially on the Point to Point section

Thanks - and managed to attach the photo referred to from the Sketch.

 

[graysonscolumn]

Jinny, Gullible, that's very sweet of you both; but whilst fun and interesting, I don't imagine that answering this enquiry is necessarily going to prove the catalyst for a concerted return to Talking Horses activity for me.

It took until 1am a few days after I received a Facebook PM from Jinny to start to do the research; equally I'm fashioning this reply at 1am and bits another few days on. I just grab the odd half hour when I can in lieu of sleep.

Such is the lot of a parent of two adopted children with complex and likely lifelong trauma issues. I wouldn't swap it for anything, but priorities have understandably changed beyond recognition since their arrival with us four and a quarter years ago.

Walking encyclopaedia of pointing is unnecessarily generous, too, but thankyou anyway! I'm an information professional by trade; it's simply what I do, and I place a high premium on accuracy, accountability and provenance. All the more so now than ever, really, for reasons well-known enough not to have to spell out.

I'll try to have a quick run through the topic headings the next I'm free to see if anything grabs me, but I can't promise terribly more beyond that. Happy to run my eye over any more user enquiries should you receive them. Go well, both.

gc

 

[Gullible]

Take care Jeremy …….family always comes first