33 Planes An Hour

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Warbler

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Report in today's Observer that the various studs in Newmarket are under threat through plans by the National Air Traffic Service to use the airspace over Newmarket to stack planes as a result of Stansted's second runway, whilst Luton planes will fly underneath.

Do planes put horses off breeding I wondered? No. It appears the only reason for the objection is that the Newmarket NIMBY's moved there for "its quiet environs, and now there is a chance they'll move away" :laughing: ahhhhh didums. The poor things. Probably the same sort of people who were happily advocating birching the Heathrow protestors only a year ago. The arrogance of it is probably what amuses me.

We should be treated differently because we're rich etc
 
Of course the planes won't affect the horses - we get irregular really low flying jets here and I reckon I spook more than the horses! We also get a lot of hot air balloons flying over and one landed in one my fields last year - right next to the mares and foals. Now that could have caused problems but luckily it didn't. Maybe my lot are very laid back but they cantered about a bit and then carried on grazing.

Pilot got a bollocking though!
 
Quite a few of the planes will be flying in stacks as low as 4000 feet. Apparently, apart from maybe spooking 2yr olds which could be very dangerous, the main worry is due to the high levels of polluntants from aviation fuel dropping on Newmarket which might affect the respiratory systems both horses in training and esp young stock on the studs.

It's thought the risk is not worth taking of damage to the horses and consequently to the industry, and there was a very high level meeting yesterday with a large number of Stud owners, BHA and racing officials, and the aviation controllers. It's hard for us to know tho whether these fears are justified or whether they are just Nimbyism
 
I read some of the quotes attributable to the Newmarket campaigners and it was pretty damn transparant that it was Nimbyism. Unfortunately too many of them seem to think that because they're rich and wealthy this entitles them to different treatment. In order to successfully object against these types of proposals you need to do it by demonstrating the technical unsuitability of them as 'I don't like it' isn't enough. Ideally you'd submit a better alternative too. Personally, I'd have thought one existed. Planes regularly fly lower than 4000 feet over Windsor and Lingfield, and I'm struggling to believe that Kempton and Ascot can't be subject of occasional activity (although I can't recall it from my visits in fairness). 4,000 feet shouldn't spook a horse. The RAF regularly fly round the countryside, damn site quicker in very noisy jets, at altitudes of 200 ft and lower and although farmers complain about the effect on livestock, you don't hear too mant stories of horses bolting and throwing riders (although I'm sure there must have been incidents).

Just take a look on Google Earth and set your altimeter for 4,000 over South Newmarket and you'll get a sense of how high up you are. I'm not totally convinced by 33 planes an hour either. That's a seperation of 110 seconds, and where as Heathrow is at 90, it is the worlds busiest airport I believe? Stansted is being aggresively developed and will get busier, but is it really at this capacity already?
 
Out of interest is there a particular reason that any fuel dropped over UK cities doesn't effect us or is it a case of the trainers thinking they're something special and getting ideas above their station again ( see the oil seed rape topic of a yearish back).
 
Well I'd think it obvious that *any* serious pollutants like aviation fuel would affect horses which are athletes working to their max capacity, as it would humans. The point about all this is that the planes would be 'stacking' not just flying over, and you could have four 'stacks' over Newmarket all at once - they've had diagrams in some of the Sundays and iirc in Monday's RP. There's a theory planes lose more fuel when stacking than flying, and of course it falls to earth, at lower altitudes, rather than dispersing in the upper atmosphere; but I haven't studied the science in any detail

The rape when in flower does affect *some* horses very badly, esp when they are doing fast work ie at full lung capacity. Horses which are badly affected in practice lose their whole season - it happened to New Seeker one year when Clive Cox was surrounded, right up to his gallops, and to Amanda Perrett's yard, and several other trainers have reported the same effect

Just as it affects humans... Suffolk is currently covered in the stuff, even worse than in previous years [no doubt thanks to the bio-fuels directives], and some of us myself included are suffering very badly. It's not just the pollen - when these plants flower they seem to release a lot of the pesticide chemicals with which they have been so liberally sprayed! Rape's evil stuff, all round. At least it's rained to day so I dare go out! I suffer from chronic respiratory problems so I follow these things quite closely.

There's the similar argument going on in Ireland about the plan to build a huge waste disposal plant very close to Ballydoyle. AOB has said it would be impossible to train champions with that source of pollution next door. How's that battle going?
 
Woodbine is on the flight line for Pearson Airport and they are very low as they come over the stands and new arrivals and shippers don't seem at all fazed by them.

The bigger concern is for the respiratory problems caused by the pollution, but that cannot be totally attributed to aircraft.
 
I'm not sure how it would affect the horses, but being very local to Biggin Hill airport, my old riding school would often be buzzed by jets on the airshow days. A lot louder and a lot lower than any airliner would be over Newmarket, it didn't seem to bother the horses at all.
We are also right under the Heathrow flightpath, a stack being right over the Biggin Hill beacon and we regularly get a/c flying over in the holding pattern. Again it didn't seem to bother the horses at all.
As Warbler has already pointed out, Lingfield is directly under the final approach for Gatwick and many planes have flown over, at a height of around 2,500 feet. Doesn't seem to bother them at all.
Not quite sure where the estimate of 33 planes an hour has come from, but I'm going to bore everyone here! If a "heavy", eg transatlantic, 777 is following a "baby", Airbus A319, Boeing 737 etc, the heavy will have to be 3 nautical miles behind the baby. But if the baby is following the heavy, it will have to be 5 nautical miles behind, because of the greater amount of vortex kicked out by the heavy. Now imagine a heavy following a heavy, within 10 miles, there would be two a/c. But if a baby follows a baby, followed by a heavy, there are 3 within the 10 miles. So there could be quite a variation on the amount of a/c at any one time. The a/c will also be within the control zone, so their speeds will be siginificantly reduced, lessening any possible effects on the thoroughbreds.
Sorry if this bored anyone, but I'm learning it as possible career and it's also relevant.
Personally, I feel it's a case of people being affected more than the horses.
 
Interesting and informative post, Sue from someone that clearly has a much better idea of the effect of this possible aviation stacking may have over Newmarket and as you say, the affect on the humans may be greater than on the horses.
 
Hilarious - especially when you consider that one of the major marketing drives of Tatts, together with the TBA and BHB/JC (or whatever their latest reincarnation) is to attract as many foreign buyers/investors as possible.

Do they think they'll be coming here in a row boat ?
 
It was on radio 5 this morning and the disgruntled stud farm they interviewed let the cat out of the bag. They started off with the line about horses being spooked and disturbed and unable to perform their duties etc The interviewer duly challenged him saying that every expert the BBC had contacted said it made no difference. Ah he said, but people come from all round the world to breed at Newmarket, precisely because it is so quiet :laughing: yeah right. Nothing to do with horses and everything to do with Nimby's.

Like I said originally, I wonder how many Newmarket Nimby's applauded the Heathrow protestors instead of chastising them for being smelly and to 'get a job' etc. :rolleyes: Not many would be my guess.

With my track record on the course, I wouldn't be averse to sticking any third runway for Stansted straight down the middle of the July Course.

The 33 figure and 4,000 ft came from a press clipping. I seem to think it involved holding Luton planes underneath the Stansted stack. The Stansted stack was reckoned to be at 7000 ft which frankly, the horses wouldn't even notice. They're probably in more danger from light aircraft or helicopters landing on the course and going wrong
 
I have to say I haven't noticed any problems at Lingfield Park when the planes go over on their approach to Gatwick, and I'd guess that they're a bit lower than 4000ft.

Suerunner, I used to know someone who'd worked at a yard at the top of Westerham Hill, just south of Biggin Hill, and they never mentioned any problems with aircraft noise.
 
Haydock has no problems - I believe it's under the flightpath for Manchester Airport. Oh and in case the racing industry didn't realise this they should open their eyes when at the races to see the various planes landing here there and everywhere at the track.
 
And of course Great Leighs has been built just down the road from Stansted - c10 miles or even less!
Very handy for all those Breeders Cup trials etc LOL
 
i dont really wantto get involved but it is worh pointing out low flyingand noisy aircraft, more particularly jets, helicopters or hot air balloons-its the noise they make when the flame goes-are quite capable of scaring horses, especially whenbeing ridden. there were a couple of high profile cases in the horse and houndover the last 15 yrs or so of riders being killed when their horses were spooked by low flying aircraft. dont forget racehorses when ina dumb mood can find a leaf scary!
 
Indeed they can, SL and I believe the Newmarket area has its fair share of low-flying aircraft from various airbases in the area.

However, they don't equate to commercial aircraft logistics and I think we can all be pretty much aware that the opposition is a case of NIMBYism, rather than genuine equine welfare concerns.

Can't say I'd want to live under a flightpath/stacking zone either but there - dem's de breaks!!
 
Hot air balloons are a real menace to livestock and even dogs - we've had dogs on Doglost esp hound types run off in terror for miles after being spooked at those, it's the horrible whooshing noise which does it. A freind of miune lost a greyhound for days due to one of those things coming down low. I used to ride an Arab mare which always spooked at a wind sock we had to pass near a little airfield! And a filly at Stan Moore's a few years back was terrified of pink flowers :what:
 
I don't know enough about the proposals or which area they are going to cover, who they are going to affect, etc, but I can see why there is some concern.

As you say Songsheet, commercial aircraft are slightly different (ie less scary!) but I'd probably still be slightly concerned to hear that I'd have loads of them flying very low over where I exercised my 2yos daily! The low heights they descend to when crossing the M25 when landing at Heathrow, for example, are enough to want to put me off wanting to ride under them when they're at such a height - I duck when driving under them!

That said, as commercial aircraft rather than jets or helicopters, if they aren't at a very low height it shouldn't especially be a problem.

We've a trainline running past our gallops so ours get used to them pretty quickly, you have to ride under a railway bridge coming into and out of the yard too - although most of them still go mental if you're riding under the bridge when a train comes over as the noises the bridge makes are horrendous!

I agree with you about the hot air balloons, HS, they're a pain in the neck. The noise that the flame makes frightens even the quietest of ponies and they have a habit (as Songsheet mentions) of landing wherever they damn well want to.
 
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