A Good Point Foolishly Made

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ardross
  • Start date Start date
A

Ardross

Guest
Mary McAleese rather put her foot in it today . Whilst she has a very good point about sectarian hatred in Northern Ireland - nobody who saw anything of the Holy Cross school protests can have been anything other than sickened to the stomach, she does rather forget that there has been a great deal of sectarian hatred perpetrated by Catholics too .

Using the Holocaust as her analogy to such specifics was also rather unwise in my opinion . Ireland's history towards the Jews is pretty ignominious from the treatment of the Jews of Limerick , to the refusal to take Jewish refugees ( less than 100 were allowed in ) and de Valera's condolences on the death of Hitler .
 
Can't believe she didn't realise what she was saying wouldn't offend someone.

It seems to me she behaved as a barrister would in court, making a point, OBJECTION!!, withdrawn.

Colin
 
She is normally ultra careful and this was a bad misjudgement. The poor Unuinist will squeel like stuck pigs for ages as they are very fragile.

I have moderate Loyalist friend who freely admit that hatred of the Taigs was beaten into them as kids, and I know it is true the other way around too. Truth hurts most I guess.
 
When you grow up on the receiving end of sectarian attacks and hear that the whole point of orangeism is the eradication of Catholicism, it is easy to understand why someone could mistakenly liken the two.
 
I'm glad I live in south far away from the likes of this. Mary McAleese, for me does nothing for this country and if I was prodestant I would be offended. We all know its the truth but why out single a certain group?

Another thing about her. Why cant she remove her glove when she shakes the hands of the players before games in Lansdowne Road?
 
Mary Robinson was an excellent President. Mary McAleese is an annoying idiot. And I held that view before she put her foot in it. She goes around Ireland like she's Mother Teresa, patronizing the nation. It's a pity Albert Reynolds is not in the job. He would give it the ceremonial status that it stands for.
 
Mary McAleese is an excellent President who is incredibly popular.
About the treatment of Jews in Ireland -we have had Jewish TD's and Lord Mayors of Dublin for years.Anti-semitism was never an issue for anybody I knew in Ireland.
 
Luke - there were pogroms in Limerick and Cork, and Dev allowed in only 100 Jewish refugees during the war. We are far from clean.
 
I am not saying that we were or are perfect but how bad was it.I saw the Eoghan Harris inspired documentary on Ch4 a few years ago.How bad were the pogroms in Cork and Limerick-I guarantee you they weren't anywhere near as bad as the rest of Europe.
 
britain took about 60,000 Jewish refugees - Ireland less than 100 . The progroms of Limerick were chilling and certainly nothing like that happened in Britain in the 20th century .
 
For crying out loud, is this turning into a "we killed fewer Jews than you" thread?

The one person in the twentieth century who, if his beliefs in an afterlife - which I don't share - are correct, should be going to the place other than that which he would have expected is Pope Pius XII.
 
Originally posted by Ardross@Jan 31 2005, 02:14 PM
britain took about 60,000 Jewish refugees - Ireland less than 100 . The progroms of Limerick were chilling and certainly nothing like that happened in Britain in the 20th century .
Click to expand...
...and Oswald Mosley wanted to give all of them a welcome.
 
Originally posted by BrianH@Jan 31 2005, 02:47 PM
ten per cent of Italy's Jews joined Mussolini's Fasci de Combattimento party.
Click to expand...
That was only because they thought Fasci De Combattimento was a type of ice cream.
 
i quote brian



The extraordinary thing is that ten per cent of Italy's Jews joined Mussolini's Fasci de Combattimento party.

Click to expand...


why?? mussolini was not hitler he didnt have a history of anti semitism
it was just another political party and secular as well.

The movement fascito italiano admired garibildi who also had jews marching with him

do you think anti semitism or indeed any other predujice is linked to certain political parties or newspapers if only things were so clear cut that one parties members could be identified as rascists and another parties members could be described as rascist free it would make life very simple

u may of course bring that old chesnut up about the dailymail before the war I presume the guardians stance and the morning stars stance was quite honourable


Luke

whilst the uk didnt have any pograms in the 20th century we did as you say have mosely before the war as well as leese the mitfords and a duke of hamilton who was quite willing to do a deal with hitler after the war had started it is not quite the same thing as a pogrom

and whilst it is hard to say one pogrom is less hurtful than another i agree with you compared to the pogroms committed in russia/ukraine/white russia in the early 1900s what happened in limerick was on a much smaller scale.

and whilst the policy of de valera in admitting jews into ireland before the war dosnt make ireland clean

i would agree with your outline in posts that ireland does not have a deep rooted history of anti semitism in fact i would agree that limerick and cork were abherations rather than the norm

and of course there are plenty of countries in europe as far as the war goes have a far worse record in their treatment of jewish refugees and indeed their own jewish population and they werent allied to germany either

simmo

after edward kicked the jews out in 1197, an infamous pogrom happened in his reign at norwich where the blood libel started and haunted jews for centuries even some still believe it today. it was cromwell that allowed the jews back in.
 
The blueshirts were set up to defend the country against De Velera. They had a bit of a whacko leader but basically didn't do very much except have the odd march and squabble with the IRA. I doubt they had much of a view on things other than the internal politics of the time (other than believing Mussolini's men were rather dashing in their uniforms)
 
The history of the Blueshirts is little known outside of Irish historians but it's something else that was greatly influenced by the Catholic hierarchy's fear of communism.

Although had De Valera fallen in the early thirties there would have been a battle royal between the rightwing Republicans and Saor Eire, a new political wing of the republican movement, whose constitution included:

"To abolish, without compensation, landlordism in lands, fisheries and minerals"

"To make the national wealth and credit available for the creation and fullest development of essential industries and mineral resources, through Industrial Workers Co-operatives, under State direction and management, workers to regulate internal working conditions"

It was this communist wing of the IRA that led John A. Costello, who was later leader of Fine Gael and Prime Minister of the Irish Republic to say in the Dail:

"The Blackshirts have been victorious in Italy and Hitler's Brownshirts have been victorious in Germany, as assuredly the Blueshirts will be victorious in Ireland."

The support for Franco in Spain from Cardinal Macrory Archbishop of Armagh and primate of all-Ireland, the Irish Christian Front and the Irish press was almost total. At one ICF rally in Cork in September 1936 40,000 people assembled to hear Monsignor Patrick Sexton , Dean of Cork , blame the Spanish civil war on "a gang of murderous Jews in Moscow". Standing at the Monsignor's side at the time Alfred O'Rahilly , the future president of the University College of Cork and Douglas Hyde , the future president of the Irish state who later had his head on the Irish £50 note.

In 1943 elected as an independent to the Dail for the Laois-Offaly area was one Oliver J. Flanagan. In one of his earliest parliamentary speeches he said:

"There is one thing that Germany did and that was to rout the Jews out of their country. Until we rout the Jews out of this country it does not matter a hair's breadth what orders you make. Where the bees are there is honey, and where the Jews are there is money." He was soon to join Fine Gael and remained a TD for them until 1987 briefly becoming Minister for Defence in the late 1970's .
 
Back
Top