A Petition Well Worth Signing

Dave, please excuse my ignorance, but who is he and why do we need to petition to stop him being paid for by public funds?
 
Kathy, this is the guy who was in charge of The Sun in 1986 and printed in big headlines a complete and utter pack of lies about those killed at Hillsboro. He is one of the biggest lying bastards ever to rob oxygene on this planet, and is now "employed" by the BBC.
 
Dont like him at all, but wouldnt sign a petition....

Peter allen and Jane garvey...would sign a petition to get those smug flippant gits off
 
Originally posted by Gareth Flynn@Jan 9 2007, 12:58 PM
Was it proven it was lies ?
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When someone makes a claim, the burden of proof is on them.
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Well has'nt he recently come back out, still saying he wrote the truth ?

Anyhow ive signed it on the basis of truth or not, the bloke is a cock.
 
I've signed it as well. It's a pity all football fans didn't join the scousers in boycotting the sun after Hillsborough.
 
Originally posted by Dave G@Jan 9 2007, 01:38 PM
Kathy, this is the guy who was in charge of The Sun in 1986 and printed in big headlines a complete and utter pack of lies about those killed at Hillsboro. He is one of the biggest lying bastards ever to rob oxygene on this planet, and is now "employed" by the BBC.
Click to expand...
Ah yes, thanks. I know just who he is now.
 
Am i right in thinking the lies were not so much about the fans who died but the claim that other fans were pickpocketing the bodies. I thought that was the biggest complaint Liverpool fans had against McKenzie?
 
It was both Euro. his general comment was that everyone turned up pissed at the last minute, and the fans caused the crush from the back. I was there. the police funneled the fans for both the Leppings lane end, and the North stand through one set of gates, and this was from a full 45 mins before the kick off.
 
Originally posted by Euronymous@Jan 9 2007, 05:10 PM
Am i right in thinking the lies were not so much about the fans who died but the claim that other fans were pickpocketing the bodies. I thought that was the biggest complaint Liverpool fans had against McKenzie?
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I had heard (now, I remember who MacKenzie is ) that someone had reported that Liverpool fans were "evidently" seen urinating on the dead and injured as the fans were so drunk. Was this another rumour down to MacKenzie too or have I dreampt this? :blink:
 
:nerd: this is the sort of thing that happens when you sign .................... :nerd:


Hillsborough Attitudes Survey Report

Conducted for Radio City, Liverpool, and Radio Hallam, Sheffield
Rex Nash and Sam Johnstone, Football Industry Group

University of Liverpool, April 1998

The following is a summary of the research report presented by the
FIG to Radio City and Radio Hallam, based on a survey of 1,350 members of the public, addressing
their attitudes towards the Hillsborough Disaster. Respondents were not necessarily football fans.

The research formed a major part of the radio stations' news coverage of the ninth anniversary of the
Disaster, in April 1998.

Area

Of those surveyed, 59% of people in Sheffield blame Liverpool fans for the disaster, whilst in Liverpool,
89% blame South Yorkshire Police (SYP). In both areas, the vast majority have never changed their
view of the disaster (81% in Sheffield and 93% in Liverpool). 97% of those who blame Liverpool fans
have never changed their view, nor have 85% of those who blame SYP.
Regional trends are also clear over the Home Secretary's decision not to reopen the inquiry into
Hillsborough - 59% of Sheffield respondents agree with Jack Straw, while 88% of Liverpool respondents
disagree. 60% in Sheffield agree it was time to move on from the disaster, but 79% in Liverpool disagree;
70% in Sheffield feel an apology is enough for people to move on from the disaster, but 88% in
Liverpool think it insufficient.

Blame

92% of those who blame SYP also think Jack Straw is wrong not to re-open the inquiry, but 92% of
those who blame Liverpool fans support him. 87% of those who blame SYP think Hillsborough should
remain a political issue, while 94% of those who blame Liverpool fans, think the matter should be closed.
Similarly, 86% of those who blame SYP think it is not time to move on, while 95% of those who blame
Liverpool fans think it is. Of those who blame SYP, 86% consider an apology insufficient, but 92% of
those blaming Liverpool fans disagree.
85% of people whose views have changed to blaming SYP cite McGovern's documentary as the turning
point. His impact is not uniform: he has had very little influence on Liverpool fans (only 1.5%) and
Evertonians (4%), a marginal impact on people who support no club (9%) and SWFC fans (11%),
but more on SUFC (17%), all other fans (17%) and other Yorkshire and Derbyshire fans (25%).

Jimmy McGovern's documentary, broadcast by Granada, December 1996

McGovern clearly influenced most those not directly affected by the disaster. Importantly 86% of those
influenced by McGovern feel Hillsborough should still be an active issue, 85% blame SYP, and 88% feel
it is not time to move on. Of those who have changed their view (11% of the total sample), 83% cite
McGovern as the reason.

Club Affiliation

97% of LFC fans, 93% of Evertonians, 41% of Yorkshire and Derbyshire fans and 74% of all others blame
SYP, whereas 61% of Blades and 78% of Sheffield Wednesday (SWFC) fans blame Liverpool fans,
suggesting regional and club loyalty. Similar divisions were found elsewhere: 58% of Blades and 81% of
SWFC fans agree it is time to move on, while 92% of LFC fans, 79% of Evertonians, 47% of Yorkshire and
Derbyshire fans, and 65% of all other fans disagree. Equally 93% of LFC fans oppose Straw's decision,
as do 93% of Evertonians, 52% of Yorkshire and Derbyshire fans, 74% of all fans and even 43% of Blades,
but only 22% of SWFC fans.
Of those who do not support any club, opinion is heavily divided: 52% blame SYP and 24% Liverpool fans,
58% oppose Jack Straw's decision, 51% feel it should remain an active issue, and 52% think it is time to
move on.
Essentially, as you get further away from SWFC, people attach more blame to SYP. SWFC fans are the
most vociferous in blaming Liverpool supporters, followed by SUFC, other Yorkshire and Derbyshire, all
other clubs, and then Merseyside. This suggests regional and club loyalty play a significant role, along
with the local media. As you move further away from Sheffield-based media (which regularly carry interviews
with SYP officers, along with articles by those who support them), so people become more hostile towards
SYP, and there is more sympathy for the campaign.
© Football Industry Group, University of Liverpool
Last modified on 8th October 1999
 
Sorry UG I really fail to see your point. Unless of course your'e saying that the average footbal fan with geocentric biased is the ultimate arbiter? you could generate no end of similar surveys, and extend them to a global areana if you want to get similar findings on slightly different, but equally inflamatory issues.

If memory serves me right it was a guy called David Duckenfield? I think I'm right in saying he was supervising his first football match? if not he'd only done a handful?.

I'll sign because McKenzie lied based on fabrications some his reporters put together (many of whom weren't there, but subsequently grabbed anyone they could, along with freelance syndicaists). I realise thats libelous, but he's been challenged before, as have the Sun, and neither party's sought to test it. I wonder why?
 
Ug, as Warbler says, what exactly is your point? And as for Duckenfield, didn't he retire on a full pension and go off playing golf for the rest of his years.
 
HENRY WHITE & ORS (Respondents) v CHIEF CONSTABLE OF SOUTH YORKSHIRE & ORS (Appellants) sub nom FROST & ORS v CHIEF CONSTABLE OF SOUTH YORKSHIRE POLICE & ORS (1998)

This case in the House of Lords considered whether police officers could claim for psychiatric injury - their claims failed but

It was admitted by the Chief Constable that the events were caused by the negligence of the police in allowing the overcrowding of two spectator pens.
 
I think Uncle G's point is that tribal loyalties in such a case will override any evidence - and/or militate against rational discussion of the evidence. ie People will believe what they want to believe, so any 'poll' is meaningless
 
Ardross: << It was admitted by the Chief Constable that the events were caused by the negligence of the police in allowing the overcrowding of two spectator pens. >>

True. But having watched the documentaries and read a lot of reports, I understood at the time that the police were faced with a huge crush of people outside the ground who they believed to be - at least quite a few of them - inebriated; and that there might be an uglyu scene leading to injury if they weren't allowed into the ground before kickoff. The NB **very few** police on the outside had little or no communication with those inside, and even those on the pitch had no idea what was going on until it was too late. It was surely a series of cock-ups by several people, beginning with a failure of planning given the structure of crowd control [pens] - leading to a catastrophic failure to grasp the seriousness of the situation.

I respect the view of Dave G who was there; obviously that counts for a lot. However many witnesses - not all police - have said that some of the Liverpool fans were pissed, had arrived late, and pushing forward into the ground. I see no point in trying to lay all blame one faction or the other.

Kelvin MacKenzie is a rabble-rousing self-publicist who will say or do anything to get noticed. He's a brilliant tabloid journalist, a complet sh*te, and imo largely to blame for the plummet in standards of public decency in the press. He also sacked Jeffrey Bernard as racing correspondent
 
But, in all fairness, Heads, the latter move was because he couldn't justify the costs of Barnard's Lunchtime O'Booze habits! :lol:
 
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