Another dog walker killed...

S

Songsheet

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Yet another tragedy of a woman being killed by cattle when walking her dogs, this time in N. Yorkshire.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of whether she was in the right place or whether suckler cows and calves should be in fields where the public walk, can I just say that if any of you are out walking your dogs, please DON'T walk through field with cows and calves in. For your own safety, give the field a wide berth and, if it's a Public Footpath, get in touch with the owner and ask if they are going to be there for any length of time and if it is safe to cross the field. I know you are all probably well aware of this issue but I do believe it does bear repeating every now and then - this woman was apparently a vet, ffs!

Farmers do have the right to close footpaths for a certain number of days but they should advertise the fact that the footpath is temporarily closed.

Our cows and calves are pretty dog proof, thankfully but I always make mine sit and stay well back if we get a fresh calver out in the fields and I always am bloody wary when I approach, as you never know just how protective a cow will be - even quiet dairy cows!

Never get between your dog and the cow and, as has been widely publicised, always drop the lead to let the dog get out of the way on its own.
 
My sentiments entirely, Jules. Totally avoidable. A good friend of my aunts was lucky to escape with a broken arm last summer when she was charged by cows after picking up her small terrier and trying to run with it. The dog is faster than you so let it escape - they usually do.
Our dogs are all stock safe but I will not cross fields with cows & calves in. You just never know.
 
I agree exept I would never take my dogs there in the first place, as dropping the lead would not be a wize moove with Greyhounds they would think Chistmass had come early.
 
One of my horses is in a field with cows and calves and there have never been any problems, except him and the two other horses chasing them the first day they were put in there! They just keep themselves to themselves.
 
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I remember (when I lived in Staffs) the sweet, dainty little Jersey cows which were put into the field opposite my house every summer. Overnight, a calf was born, and they couldn't get enough of goggling at it. Unwisely, a local skinhead, chum, and little black dog crept under the rails round their field in order to take a few of the rabbits which co-inhabited the field. Big mistake! It was fascinating to see how these pretty cows became so alert - heads went up sharply, and then, as one, they moved into a triangular phalanx - what the Americans call a flying V wedge - and 'escorted' the visitors briskly out of bounds. The SAS would've been proud of them - crisp, determined, and very effective!
 
Shadow Leader said:
One of my horses is in a field with cows and calves and there have never been any problems, except him and the two other horses chasing them the first day they were put in there! They just keep themselves to themselves.
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Most of the time there won't be - the danger period is directly after calving and for the weeks or so following. Hormone levels are at their highest, obviously, and that's the only factor driving the dam at that point.

Dairy cows tend not to be so aggressive anyway. Our Blues are pretty placid and I have always mixed the mares with cattle and at the moment, River field has four mares and foals and eleven cows with nine calves (two are barreners), all co-existing very happily together. One of the cows without a calf is the enormous Patsy - a pedigree Blue. I can walk the dogs right past her at the moment with no problems but wouldn't even consider it if she had a calf at foot. She is an extremely protective cow and, being so bloody huge, is not one to reason with, no matter how long off having calved she is ! Fine with human after the frst week or so but dogs? No way, Jose....

Had one of the dry dairy cows calve last night - my mutts knew right away that she'd calved and where she and the calf were but knew full well not to go any where near and to stay well back when I went to check them.
 
These are beef cattle but they're really chilled. One of the cows, Bluebell, has been around for ages and is pretty tame and the others don't seem too bad either. I've been in the pens herding the babies and the mums were fine with us - the ones to look out for were the charolais' who were yet to calve, they're evil with their kicks apparently!
 
It's a pity the cows didn't show similar traits when they were being rounded up for Auschwitz.

A disease in the meat chain will kill you all.
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Great words of advice Songsheet.

A couple of years ago a housing development was built down the road from us and it is next to one of our fields. We now rent that field out to a friend of ours who and he uses it for his mixed herd of cattle. The amount of times I have had to stop people from the estate walking their dogs in the field is nobodys business. I explain the reasons as you mentioned above but some of them take very little heed i'm afraid. Worst still is the kids playing in the field. I'm by no means a bah humbug but it's really not a playground, it is downright bloody dangerous at times. I'm afraid some people just won't be told though, what can you do?

That reminds me, I had a few young lad's walking around in my front field as bold as brass, the field where we keep the horses. They were out trying to rabbit with their dog so i made up a dramatic cock and bull story that one of my horses was a right nutcase and would kick the head off you given half a chance........ never saw them again:whistle:
 
I could suggest, though, that folks with large animules like cows and horses put up signs on their gates advising 'no entry - livestock in field' so that casual walkers could be discouraged. I know, I know, people shouldn't have to do it, etc., etc., but where the fields are close to built-up areas, it might save some grief - either way, since no-one wants their cattle stampeded or their horses frightened.
 
krizon said:
I could suggest, though, that folks with large animules like cows and horses put up signs on their gates advising 'no entry - livestock in field' so that casual walkers could be discouraged. I know, I know, people shouldn't have to do it, etc., etc., but where the fields are close to built-up areas, it might save some grief - either way, since no-one wants their cattle stampeded or their horses frightened.
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We did that Krizon, it made not one tiny jot of difference i'm afraid. One other trick my OH has resorted to in the past is painting the gates that they climb over with thick black oily gloop. The buggers always seem to find a way though. We don't do it to be the 'gerrorf my land' types but the outcome can be something terrible (like the story above) and we definitely don't want that for either animals or folks. The stories i could tell you about peeps on the land are never ending :blink:
 
Shadow Leader said:
If there are footpaths/rights of way over a field though you cannot put up signs forbidding entry.
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The question is right of entry for who/what? I understand it to be people - not dogs. And you are legally permitted to close a footpath for a certain number of days each year for legitimate farming purposes.

I am certainly tempted to put up signs saying right of way for humans only but humans with dogs definitely cross at their own risk. I'm personally fed up with having gates left open, folk traipsing all over the farm where no FP exists, carrying 3 million quid plus insurance cover because that is necessary these days and asking people to put their fecking dogs on a lead when walking past the horses and cattle. Most people are lovely and very careful but we have a few that are downright shitty and out to cause trouble if they can...

As to fly-tipping.... luckily I've only had that happen once but the owners of the SSSI next to my land are constantly having to remove rubbish left by scroaty b*stards from, presumably, Wellington or Wivey/Milverton or maybe even further...
 
I posted to point out to Krizon's suggestion that people put up signs saying 'no entry - livestock in field' that if there is a public right of way you cannot put up signs forbidding entry, not on a permanent or semi-permanent basis at least.

So far as I am aware, if there is a footpath crossing land you cannot forbid dogs as well as walkers but I'm pretty sure there is an obligation on the dog owner to keep dogs on leads if requested to do so or in the presence of any livestock.

Fly tippers are a nuisance. They're usually pikeys so the police are unwilling and unable to do anything at all about it.
 
I understood that but with the increased scrutiny on everything we do - especially if you're farming it would seem - sooner or later the worm will turn and Joe Public will find that the farming community will have had enough.

Up to now, walkers with dogs have been tolerated and most reasonable farmers have no problem with folk traversing their land in a responsible and sensible manner - even when as so often happens, it does actually directly interfere with carrying on their legitimate trade. But if, as I guess will be the next DEFRA directive, it becomes illegal to keep stock with offspring at foot (and you can include sheep, cattle, pigs and horses under the title of 'stock') in fields with a public FP, then shit, both virtual and actual, will hit the fan.

If you want to walk your dogs, I've no problem with that - on the lead wherever stock is present but off the lead where the field is empty and is not standing cereals or grass crops - my cattle don't want dog crap in their silage, thanks. But if the next bit of bureaucracy is that you can't use fields for your suckler herd or your dry cows or your ewes and lambs, then we've gone beyond what is acceptable. There should be no-go areas for dog walkers where it is impossible to guarantee their safety. If that means a footpath at certain times of the year isn't available to them then - tough! Go somewhere else! If farmers don't have an alternative field or fields to put their down calvers due to the time of year (this time of year there is always extreme pressure on grazing land with foraging at its peak for silage, haylage and hay) and need to close fields for up to a month, then they should be legally permitted to do so.

OK, rant over but unless you do actually farm, you really don't have a really good insight into the levels of bureaucracy surrounding this industry. I'm bloody lucky - my farm isn't adjacent to a town or village so I don't get the level of problems some of my friends do...
 
My parents did a lot of field work, peas/currants picking etc. not to mention collect Elder flower, Dandelion & Horse Radish, when I was small. This was early 50's and you had to make a shilling anywhere you could and obviously this would entail crossing fields with livestock in them, very few horses then, may I say, but lots more cattle. There was a greater variety of breeds then as well, and my parents taught me at an early age to tell a cow from a bull from a bullock. I was warned about cows with calves and also my father was always wary of the Channel Island cattle Jerseys and Guernseys at any time, he said they were unpredictable

Incidentally my friends are back in Purwell Meadows, maybe some of them will be from last year, and maybe I've eaten some of last years already! Will try to get a couple of photos later.
 
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I don't think the interests of dog owners can be put ahead of a multi-billion £ industry, Songy - if the Ramblers' Association wants the right of way to wander where it will, then it must fund the insurance costs for the farms which it wishes to traverse. I used to march about the countryside a good deal in the past (un-dogged), but would never have dreamt of leaving gates open, bashing through hedges, leaving litter, etc. in order to enjoy my little sojourn. On the other hand, when I have tried to use so-called rights of way, I've often found them overgrown by hedgerows from farms, obstructed by abandoned farm machinery, and sometimes cut off halfway down their tiny, narrow pathways by wire fencing. It seems there's a need for less mutual glaring and a more co-operative attitude on both sides.
 
We lost a sheep earlier this year, in lamb, to a condition called Gidd. This is when tapeworms from dogs get ingested by the sheep and the larva works its way to the sheeps brain. The sheep then dies a pretty nasty death, going round and round in circles. We don't have footpath across our land but the neighbouring farmer has shooting rights so presumably thats how the tapeworm got into the field.
 
Doesn't he worm his gun dogs, then? I'd have thought he might invest in some wormers for dogs which pick up a lot more than dead birds - I've seen Songsheet's beauties take a real shine to the cowpats, for example, so they seem to have a go at almost anything that smells rank!
 
Yes - dogs love them, don't they? Don't know what the qualities of pats are, but a really good squirm in them seems to be essential - plus, manure eating on visits to stables. Nice...

Although I'd still like to know how my tiny little runty cat, decades ago, came tottering home with a slice of pizza stuck to her side... not sure if she was trying out for Kitty's Home Deliveries (fail), or if she'd gone to sleep on it. Took ages to pry it off without taking the fur with it, too.
 
Songsheet said:
..can I just say that if any of you are out walking your dogs, please DON'T walk through field with cows and calves in. For your own safety, give the field a wide berth...
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This is also sound advice for any caravan enthusiasts that need to cross a field containing Shadow Leader.
 
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