Arab-israeli Wars
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rumoursabound
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rumoursabound
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Luke,
the guy asked for info, so i provided a few links for him.
My views on ISRAEL are well known on this message board and therefore i am having difficulty in understanding the reasoning behind your question.
As far as explaining away what happened at the beach a few days ago, it is common knowledge that ISRAELI Government has had an inquiry which came to the conclusion that HAMAS or a PALASTINIAN Land mine was responsible.
The ISRAELIS are very adept in providing a high class standard of BULLSHIT.
I have absolutely no time at all for that place or it's government.
the guy asked for info, so i provided a few links for him.
My views on ISRAEL are well known on this message board and therefore i am having difficulty in understanding the reasoning behind your question.
As far as explaining away what happened at the beach a few days ago, it is common knowledge that ISRAELI Government has had an inquiry which came to the conclusion that HAMAS or a PALASTINIAN Land mine was responsible.
The ISRAELIS are very adept in providing a high class standard of BULLSHIT.
I have absolutely no time at all for that place or it's government.
Luke, if you read the articles posted you will see that sometimes they are pushed beyond all reasonable patience.
Did anyone else notice that the UN did nothing to stop the Egyptian forces invading Israel but as soon as the counter-attack breached the Egyptian border they were told to stop or face sanctions. They stand alone against attacks and pressure from all sides and I think that they have to fight back with dis-proportionate force in order to maintain their borders.
Did anyone else notice that the UN did nothing to stop the Egyptian forces invading Israel but as soon as the counter-attack breached the Egyptian border they were told to stop or face sanctions. They stand alone against attacks and pressure from all sides and I think that they have to fight back with dis-proportionate force in order to maintain their borders.
Sorry, but that's plain inaccurate. Why wouldn't you kill yourself for a cause you actually believed in? There are plenty of examples. The earliest Christians faced certain, and horrible, death for not renouncing their religion. Later on, Christianity had got to the point where its two major factions faced off with appalling persecutions on both sides, both of them knowing that to continue to be a faithful Catholic or a determined Protestant, depending on the monarch's or adversary's whim, was as good as a self-sentence of death.
And many have down the ages killed themselves to draw attention to their beliefs: I realize some of you are too young to have seen the pictures, but plenty of Vietnamese Buddhist monks immolated themselves in protest at the invasion of their country by Americans. The Japanese took their loss of honour and face very seriously, and fell upon their swords rather than face capture and humiliation, whether in ancient tribal conflicts or the world wars. There is not a whole deal of difference between killing yourself and knowing that you will definitely be killed by someone else, when you believe strongly enough in what you're doing.
Just because we fail to understand other people doesn't make their actions unrepresentational: suicide bombers represent certain minority factions, those committed to dying for their beliefs by their own hand, rather than waiting to be shot down in the street by their enemies. Monks burning themselves alive in protest were terrible sights caught on camera, but they very definitely represented both a race and a religion.
When you decide to read about other people of the world, you have to put aside preconceptions and your own cultural heritage, and try to understand the way that their world is framed. Just as I've no personal desire to eat witchety grubs on a visit to Australia, doesn't mean that Aboriginals shouldn't!
And many have down the ages killed themselves to draw attention to their beliefs: I realize some of you are too young to have seen the pictures, but plenty of Vietnamese Buddhist monks immolated themselves in protest at the invasion of their country by Americans. The Japanese took their loss of honour and face very seriously, and fell upon their swords rather than face capture and humiliation, whether in ancient tribal conflicts or the world wars. There is not a whole deal of difference between killing yourself and knowing that you will definitely be killed by someone else, when you believe strongly enough in what you're doing.
Just because we fail to understand other people doesn't make their actions unrepresentational: suicide bombers represent certain minority factions, those committed to dying for their beliefs by their own hand, rather than waiting to be shot down in the street by their enemies. Monks burning themselves alive in protest were terrible sights caught on camera, but they very definitely represented both a race and a religion.
When you decide to read about other people of the world, you have to put aside preconceptions and your own cultural heritage, and try to understand the way that their world is framed. Just as I've no personal desire to eat witchety grubs on a visit to Australia, doesn't mean that Aboriginals shouldn't!
And a handy-dandy li'l newkiller arsenal which never seems to worry Mr Bush in the slightest. Just so long as it's not them thar pesky Ay-rabs and Eye-rainyans that's got one...
The main reason for the USA being so kind to Israel is because back home, Jewish self-interest groups help to fund election campaigns which look warmly upon their aims. The aspirant electees look warmly upon Jewish self-interest groups (which control much of the media) because they'd like to be elected, please. And so things go in a circle of self-interest. Nothing to do with 'gallant little Israel' at all. Countries don't come much littler in terms of power and authority than the remnants of Palestine, or West-friendly neighbouring Jordan, which has housed thousands of displaced Palestinians for decades in semi-permanent refugee 'camps'. They have absorbed these people into Jordanian nationality, so that they can be given passports so that, wherever possible, they can seek a better life elsewhere. Zionists like to remind the world of the diasporas of Jews throughout history, while creating a modern one for the Palestinian people without the slightest sense of shame or irony. To be entirely fair, though, there are one or two Israel-based anti-expansionist groups comprising Israeli membership, who do try to show that not every Israeli is a Zionist, and that they'd very much like to live in the old harmony which once existed.
The main reason for the USA being so kind to Israel is because back home, Jewish self-interest groups help to fund election campaigns which look warmly upon their aims. The aspirant electees look warmly upon Jewish self-interest groups (which control much of the media) because they'd like to be elected, please. And so things go in a circle of self-interest. Nothing to do with 'gallant little Israel' at all. Countries don't come much littler in terms of power and authority than the remnants of Palestine, or West-friendly neighbouring Jordan, which has housed thousands of displaced Palestinians for decades in semi-permanent refugee 'camps'. They have absorbed these people into Jordanian nationality, so that they can be given passports so that, wherever possible, they can seek a better life elsewhere. Zionists like to remind the world of the diasporas of Jews throughout history, while creating a modern one for the Palestinian people without the slightest sense of shame or irony. To be entirely fair, though, there are one or two Israel-based anti-expansionist groups comprising Israeli membership, who do try to show that not every Israeli is a Zionist, and that they'd very much like to live in the old harmony which once existed.
Thats exactly what I thought last week when I read about the Palestinian family blown up by a missile at the beach-those poor Israelis their patience must be worn out.
As for the Israelis standing alone your statement is correct only if you exclude the billions of dollars in American aid and weapons.
Summing up
Israel and USA =Bad Boys
Palestinian= good peacefull people
This affair does not have any solution,I wonder why we european people always side with palestian do what they do and why we pay for the palestian and then be rewarded with Hamas going to power then.
Israel and USA =Bad Boys
Palestinian= good peacefull people
This affair does not have any solution,I wonder why we european people always side with palestian do what they do and why we pay for the palestian and then be rewarded with Hamas going to power then.
We've been over this ground so many times before, we all know each other's stance on the issue, I think. Of course there's a 'solution' to it. It's too late now to say that we - the British - had no right to have formulated the Balfour Treaty in the first place. It's too late now to say that it was the state of Zion which was envisaged, to give the wandering, dispossessed Jews a place to live, not a hard-line, nuclear-advantaged, militaristic, land-grabbing and dispossessing authoritarian state.
The wandering Jews actually HAD a perfectly good place to live, where they and their Palestinian neighbours existed in as much harmony as is possible in any country: they lived and worked in, and came back from their tragic experiences in Germany and Poland to, PALESTINE.
'The Europeans' - whoever they are - probably 'side with' the Palestinians' condition, suny bay, because they were the original architects of their misery. They did not foresee how the expansionism of the state of Israel would force them from their businesses, homes, and farms. How eagerly thousands of Israelis would gobble up more and more space, and at the point of a tank gun would evict people who'd lived all of their lives, in fact all of their family's lives since time immemorial, out of their own land and into the same dispossessed, homeless, wandering state of so many of their own people. Modern Israel has acted with greed and a lack of humanity, it's bullied a then unarmed populace out of its way, shot down or imprisoned the dissident (including even a few of its own, to get them off the public stage - remember Vanunu??), and overall has acted entirely like a well-schooled protege of its main supporter, the USA, a country which has displayed all of those traits since the end of the Second World War (which it won for the world, by the way).
Israel has shamelessly traded off the back of the sympathy for the treatment of Jews by the Nazis. They play the Holocaust card to wring guilt out of anyone trying to criticize their actions. They have broken every treaty they've signed up to, and have absolutely NO compunction about continuing any illegal action they feel suits their needs.
Do you perhaps now see why many people detest the country's attitude, and that of its Big Brother? If you refuse to acknowledge history, if you refuse to acknowledge Israel's recent and current actions, and if you refuse to acknowledge its reported intransigence, then you can hardly argue a valid viewpoint, since it's based on the same blind bias in favour of the country that the USA has held (out of political and financial self-interest) for decades.
The wandering Jews actually HAD a perfectly good place to live, where they and their Palestinian neighbours existed in as much harmony as is possible in any country: they lived and worked in, and came back from their tragic experiences in Germany and Poland to, PALESTINE.
'The Europeans' - whoever they are - probably 'side with' the Palestinians' condition, suny bay, because they were the original architects of their misery. They did not foresee how the expansionism of the state of Israel would force them from their businesses, homes, and farms. How eagerly thousands of Israelis would gobble up more and more space, and at the point of a tank gun would evict people who'd lived all of their lives, in fact all of their family's lives since time immemorial, out of their own land and into the same dispossessed, homeless, wandering state of so many of their own people. Modern Israel has acted with greed and a lack of humanity, it's bullied a then unarmed populace out of its way, shot down or imprisoned the dissident (including even a few of its own, to get them off the public stage - remember Vanunu??), and overall has acted entirely like a well-schooled protege of its main supporter, the USA, a country which has displayed all of those traits since the end of the Second World War (which it won for the world, by the way).
Israel has shamelessly traded off the back of the sympathy for the treatment of Jews by the Nazis. They play the Holocaust card to wring guilt out of anyone trying to criticize their actions. They have broken every treaty they've signed up to, and have absolutely NO compunction about continuing any illegal action they feel suits their needs.
Do you perhaps now see why many people detest the country's attitude, and that of its Big Brother? If you refuse to acknowledge history, if you refuse to acknowledge Israel's recent and current actions, and if you refuse to acknowledge its reported intransigence, then you can hardly argue a valid viewpoint, since it's based on the same blind bias in favour of the country that the USA has held (out of political and financial self-interest) for decades.
Colin Phillips
At the Start
Well said, Madam!!
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rumoursabound
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krizon,
top totty.
top totty.