Australian state of Victoria bans jump racing

mrussell

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This refers:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8382072.stm

"Steeplechase and hurdle racing in the Australian state of Victoria will be abolished in 2010, prompted by the deaths of 20 horses in two years.The decision follows a comprehensive review of the sport and has been welcomed by animal welfare groups.
However, members of the racing industry have reacted with anger, calling it "unbelievable" and "appalling".
Racing's governing body in Victoria had conceded that the sport was in decline because of mounting safety concerns.........."
 
If what passes for 'jumps' racing are those oversized, soft, floppy greyhound hurdle style things that someone put up some months ago, then they might as well call it a day and go play horseball or pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey. They were inconsequential, soggy flips of nylon which no self-respecting animal would heed after he'd found out he could just charge through them. If that's the best replication of steeplechasing they could come up with, it deserves to be binned. The country has no heritage of hunting (apart from decimating the Aborigines and brumbies with rifles), so they might as well stop the pantomime that they have. Let 'em do rodeo instead. Or bobbing for apples - although I suppose they'll need a Bondi-style lifeguard standing by for that, for Health & Safety reasons.
 
If what passes for 'jumps' racing are those oversized, soft, floppy greyhound hurdle style things that someone put up some months ago, then they might as well call it a day and go play horseball or pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey. They were inconsequential, soggy flips of nylon which no self-respecting animal would heed after he'd found out he could just charge through them. If that's the best replication of steeplechasing they could come up with, it deserves to be binned. The country has no heritage of hunting (apart from decimating the Aborigines and brumbies with rifles), so they might as well stop the pantomime that they have. Let 'em do rodeo instead. Or bobbing for apples - although I suppose they'll need a Bondi-style lifeguard standing by for that, for Health & Safety reasons.

Could not agree more. The obstacles were a (bad) joke.
 
Mrussell - sorry, I know, being just a simple woman, I sit on the fence, waiting for some manly chap with a cleft chin to tell me what to think. Oh, look - what a sweet, fluffy little kitten... :<3:
 
http://www.racingvictoria.net.au/asset/cms/Horses/Grand%20National%20Steeplechase_Pentiffic%20(T.Wells)%20220.jpg

This is what they were jumping in Victoria, in respect to Steeplechasing. As you can all clearly see, the horse (Penteriffic) is brushing through rather than gracefully lifting his front legs over the top and jumping in a correct manner. I am not even going to bother commenting on the hurdles.

The sport unfortunately, has seriously had to go, as the animals had no respect for the jumps and were "brushing" (not jumping) through the obstacles at over 60 kilometres an hour. Any person with one brain cell knows you don't run a horse over a jump at that type of speed, unless you had a bazooka being pointed at you.

I am all for jumps racing, but on a large track, which has been built to host such events, and not at places like Moonee Valley, Sandown, Caulfield or Flemington. Warrnambool was a great meeting until they ridded of the original log type and water jumps.

Thankfully Oakbank in South Australia still hosts such jumps, and all is not "lost" but the time may come when South Australia will have to quit. Though the SAJC is not letting down and giving into animal activists and keeping the traditional jumps.
 
If I thought that 'animal activists' knew the dynamics of horse mechanics, I'd possibly respect their views. However, their idea of 'cruel' jumping is that if you make the fences soft and cuddly, the horseykins won't come to any harm. As any fule kno, horses much prefer to do the least possible work, and barge their way through anything soft. That's exactly why fences, whether they're in the showjumping ring, throughout events courses, or in chases and hurdles, must be resilient enough to teach the animal to respect them. A pathetic irony - animal 'activists' have contributed to more equine fatalities. And the worst irony, that the Australian courses have buckled at the knees and given up.
 
they might as well call it a day and go play horseball or pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey.

Krizon, I appreciate that the likes of you and I might not be admirers, but some of our members are fans of all-weather racing, so please don't be so condescending.
 
Ive watched horseball - give me a go!!!! ;)

Im with GA and the rest of you - dont ban it - run the bloody game properly and teach the horses to JUMP. !!!

Be interesting to see how that one of Venitias does this season, bless him bet hes had a shock !!!
 
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I'd somehow doubt that they were racing over jumps at over 60km/h - that's sprinting speed.

I watched it last year live, and can tell you they were going up around that speed Shadow. You may doubt, but until you have actually watched a horse brush/jump (whatever you may wish to call it) here in Australia then you can comment. In Europe, horses are jumping solid fences or hurdles, not an upside broom stick, with a flight made of aluminum. They also run the horses slowly, so they can last the distance, and the tracks are significantly larger, and designed for National Hunt. The jockeys also have a different seat aboard the animal, and the stirrup leathers are much longer. The Australian horses run on the usual city circuits or provincial circuits, which due to size/logistics, are tights. The jockeys have a different seat, and most sit short in the saddle. Its a totally different world here than there.

My friend and I, both came down from Sydney to meet Silent Witness that particular weekend. We were also invited to Moonee Valley by the Racing Manager, to watch the big steeplechase. We watched in disgrace and horror at the two jumps races that were on. The hurdle race was terrible, we saw a group of them just rushing like idiots through the jump on the straight before crashing to their mercy. All the horses that fell had to be destroyed, including one that broke its neck. It was a terrible sight to behold, and made me rethink about the position of the sport in Australia.

The steeple chase was not much better. Like the hurdles, where one should not rush like a bull at a gate, they did just that, rush like a bull at a gate. It didn't help that the top jumper, Spanish Symbol, brushed through the first gate, and then fell and snapped his both front legs upon landing.

What I would have rather seen was new rules and regulations implemented, rather than the Racing Minister (who mind you is married to a lawyer/animal activist) scrap the sport altogether. Many peoples lives, particularly some trainers, are at stake because of this decision. I know of 5 trainers in Victoria, who specifically only train the jumpers, and not the flat horses. They either have to pack up shop and move to South Australia, where the sport is now all question marks as well, or refocus their operations on flat horses. Which is very costly. I also have read of one trainer who said if such a decision came into effect immediately he would "shoot all his horses with a gun."

Rather than using common sense, and doing a remodel of the sport, the government has bowed down to the animal rights and RSPCA. The best solution would have been to have brought forward a third party management crisis team with respectable track records and get them to work together writing a report and how they would restructure the sport again. Bring in the risk managers, OH&S folk, as well as accredited jumps trainers both locally and internationally, accredited jumps riders locally and internationally, track designers, track managers, and the like. Let them work together to solve an issue that is pretty simple in my opinion to be fixed.

If it were my project, I would honestly relocate all the jumps racing out of the metropolitan region of suburban Melbourne. The tracks are not fit to facilitate or accommodate such racing. It should be honestly all relocated to Warrnambool, about 3 to 4 hours from Melbourne, on the seaboard between South Australia and Victoria. The track is huge, and has been known as one of the best tracks in Australia because of its great size. That is what you need when you jump a horse, SPACE. The horses should be bred purposely for jumps racing, and not be "recycled" ex flat horses that were considered "useless" or too "slow" for flat racing. That is another HUGE problem, the animals are usually given their ticket after 4 or 5 weeks over the jumps in a bull ring, before running in a "jumps trial." From what I have been told on other forums and this one, the Euro's don't get broken in until they are at least 4 or 5. Then for 12 to 18 months are slowly schooled properly over solid jumps to learn some sort of respect. How does a horse respect a jump when it has only seen them a couple of times in 4 or 5 weeks?
Would also love to see the jumps be replaced with hedges, and solid constructions, than fences made of aluminium and broomsticks. Also feel a need for the jockeys to be properly trained and accredited and should be forced to ride in Europe to learn how to properly ride.

Then there is the issue of the speed. This is about 50% of the problem. The speed these animals are running is just pathetic. It is so dangerous, its actually frightening to watch. All of our hosts said they would not watch the hurdle or steeple until it was finished, and they warned us "Watch the speed, its like a flash of lightning."

Anyway that is my whinge, but no one will listen to a nobody from Sydney, especially when you are married (that is the Victorian Racing Minister) to a high court lawyer, who happens to be an animal activist.:ninja:
 
Grand Armee, over 60km/h is at the top end of the scale when it comes to how fast horses can gallop. It would probably equate to 6f pace. Ergo I very much doubt that they were going that fast no matter how fast you think they were going. Just being there and watching it isn't really an accurate gauge of exact speeds, is it?!
 
If it were my project, I would honestly relocate all the jumps racing out of the metropolitan region of suburban Melbourne. The tracks are not fit to facilitate or accommodate such racing. It should be honestly all relocated to Warrnambool, about 3 to 4 hours from Melbourne, on the seaboard between South Australia and Victoria. The track is huge, and has been known as one of the best tracks in Australia because of its great size. That is what you need when you jump a horse, SPACE. The horses should be bred purposely for jumps racing, and not be "recycled" ex flat horses that were considered "useless" or too "slow" for flat racing. That is another HUGE problem, the animals are usually given their ticket after 4 or 5 weeks over the jumps in a bull ring, before running in a "jumps trial." From what I have been told on other forums and this one, the Euro's don't get broken in until they are at least 4 or 5. Then for 12 to 18 months are slowly schooled properly over solid jumps to learn some sort of respect. How does a horse respect a jump when it has only seen them a couple of times in 4 or 5 weeks?
Would also love to see the jumps be replaced with hedges, and solid constructions, than fences made of aluminium and broomsticks. Also feel a need for the jockeys to be properly trained and accredited and should be forced to ride in Europe to learn how to properly ride.

Horses are "recycled" from the flat in Europe as well, Grand Armee, and all NH racing in UK/Ire certainly doesn't take place on galloping circuits.

Sounds like there is a fundamental lack of basic understanding of the fundamentals of NH racing over there. If the situation really is as bad as you make out (every faller in the hurdle having to be put down?!), racing should surely be suspended indefinitely until it is sorted out.
 
Trackside, they have been at the tables about this topic for the past 5 years. The debate over it being run and banned has been ongoing for a lot longer than this.

The final straw I think finally came when nearly the entire field (bar 3 or 4 runners) in one of the big Hurdle races fell and several of them had to be destroyed.

Racing Victoria last night announced that they would now be replacing the races with the European styled "bumper" races. An easy solution for them, but as one trainer said "My horses are not trained for flat racing, they are trained for jumping."
 
Leave the prawn-gobblers of Victoria to their unutterably shitty Flat fare, and let them go green with envy when they see the tape of the Hennessy.

Shower of wankers.
 
The track-record at Moonee Valley is 3m10.75s for a 2900m hurdle. That's an average speed of just under 55km/h. Throw a standing start into the equation and it will increase slightly.

In his first Nunthorpe, Bordlescott averaged over 64.5km/h. Obviously in a 5f sprint the period between a horse leaving the stalls and hitting top speed represents a much greater proportion of the race.

My liver disagrees... I don't need to get out more.
 
It's all very well people getting all hot under the collar about this, but Racing Victoria, and to a great extent the trainers, really have only themselves to blame and the decision was inevitable. Better that they made it themselves than have it made for them.

They have been attempting, with a singular lack of intelligence and common sense, to put things right for a number of years, and as has been pointed out, matters have got worse rather than better.

There just isn't the tradition and store of knowledge of schooling, training and riding NH horses that you find in the UK and other European countries, and it shows. Add to that the end-to-end style of modern racing and the firm ground that so often prevails in hot and dry Australia, and you end up with disaster.

A few illustrative stats:

In the UK the average risk of fatality in flat racing is around 0.8 to 0.9 per 1,000 starts. The figure for jump racing overall is just over 4 deaths per 1000.

In Victoria, studies have reported the risk of fatality in flat racing from 1989 to 2004 at 0.44 per 1,000 starts. For jump racing, it's 8.3.

Therefore, we can say that UK jump racing is about 5 times more dangerous than flat, whereas in Australia it's nearly 20 times.

...and that's why there's been such a furore about it.
 
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