Bertie Ahern

BrianH

BrianH

At the Start
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May 3, 2003
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Is it true that in the light of certain allegations, which I'm sure are false, that badges are for sale in Dublin bearing the legend:

Been there, seen it, done it, bought the Taioseach
 
I don't know what to make of all this Bertie stuff really. The country's gone stone mad. The PD's are suffering from tongue in arse syndrome, Fine Gael and Labour are trying to figure out the best way to cash in on someone's personal troubles without seeming insensitive and Fianna Fail, well, they're so paranoid they've resorted to filling the audience for discussion shows with their own members. It's great craic altogether.
 
Is it true that in the light of certain allegations, which I'm sure are false
Click to expand...

The allegations are not false, or at least the allegations, as presented, are not disputed.

Bertie was given about 50K by some friends, who also happened to be prominent businessmen, which was presented as a loan, when Bertie was short a few quid after his seperation. When Bertie attempted to pay it back they said not to bother. No gift tax was paid. One of the donations was made on a corporate NCB stockbrokers cheque, a company that would be quite sensitive to decisions made by the Minister of Finance at the time. At least 4 of these prominent businessmen have been given lucrative directorships on state boards, although there is no particular reason to relate this with the donations, rather their friendship with Bertie. The loan plus interest was paid back in the last few days to the people involved who donated it to Bertie's ex-wife's favourite charity.

It is not disputed that these people genuinely were friends, nor are their motives disputed.

Bertie also decided to give a dinner speech in Manchester when Minister of Finance. His attendance was wholly reliant on him being Minister of Finance. No fee was paid, however guests at the dinner were asked to contribute to a voluntary whip round which Bertie graciously accepted - I can't remember the amount involved £18k, I think.

Nobody is alleging there was anything illegal in what Bertie has done. The appropriatness of the actions of a Minister of Finance is more the question, although the revenue commissioners would appear to have a case worth investigating.

My personal view is that these actions alone would not justify resignation. A scruffy, embarrassing mess which justified some explanation but that is it. Having said that, I trust his integrity (even) less, and would love to see a full formal investigation into all his financial dealings in the last 20 years. Somehow I can't see that happening.
 
His initial arrogance in claiming that he has nothing to answer and that these were "old accusations" was very disappointing.

He seems to feel that he is above and beyond the rules that he has stated (in the Dáil) should be applied to others.
 
Originally posted by Melendez@Oct 3 2006, 09:24 AM
Is it true that in the light of certain allegations, which I'm sure are false
Click to expand...

The allegations are not false, or at least the allegations, as presented, are not disputed.
Click to expand...
I was being a good moderator and protecting the forum against Sue, Grabbit and Runne
 
I wonder does any of this mess have a relationship to the change of leadership within the PDs. It would be no surprise if they knew it was in the pipeline. I believe Mary Harney would have handled the situation in a less restrained way than McDowell, which may not have been beneficial to the party. Even as non leader she was among those wishing Bertie would clarify the situation, when Bertie was telling reporters it was personal, confidential information which he was not willing to discuss. I believe it was probably her intervention that led to Bertie's heart rendering interview with Brian Dobson.
 
Personally I think he should stay on and the government should run its course.We have never had it so good in this country and Bertie has played his part in that.
The electorate can decide next year but political stability is definitely good for the economy.
 
I think he will stay on, and that FF will win the next election just because the opposition are so bloody toothless anyway. Kenny has nothing like the public persona of Bertie which people relate to and, ironically enough, could probably do with people getting to know his personal life a bit before warming to him.

Rabbitte, on the other hand, is worthless since entering into the pact with Kenny. Settling to be his effective deputy removes any respect for his leadership prowess.

This whole affair is bringing the astonishing amount of Fianna Fail grass roots support there is out there to the fore. It's like the silent majority are finally speaking out over this issue, and they're speaking out in favour of the man under fire. Teflon Taoiseach? You betcha.
 
Pathetic speech from Bertie yesterday and an even more pathetic response from the opposition. The whole point of the exercise seemed to be to have a good old laugh at Bertie rather than to bring out salient points which required a response. The opposition was more effective in trivialising the affair than Bertie ever could.
 
We had a bit of it on the news here. I wondered if that was a world record for the number of times the word "wrong" was used in an opposition leader's speech.
 
I listened to Berties speech in work with a number of FG'ers.The popular opinion was that Berie was believeable and sincere.
 
I thought it very honourable that he operated without a bank account while Minister of Finance, to show he was not favouring any financial institution.

Unfortunately throughout that time all his financial transactions had to be done through cash rendering any investigation of his affairs useless.

Undoubtedly the man has made his contribution to this country's economic success, I do not see that this excuses him from adhering to reasonable public service ethics. Of his 15 minute speech, all but the last 3 or 4 seconds was spent saying he did nothing wrong. The 3 or 4 seconds was an apology that the discovery of his affairs caused so much hassle.

Enda Kenny did manage to raise a lot of the questions that needed answering, however he mixed them in with a whole load of crap that didn't need answering all in one long question, so Bertie was easily able to cherry pick the crap questions to answer, which had already been done to death.

What's needed in these situations is to draft in Miriam O'Callaghan to drill him in the Dail, and avoid the embarrassing scene of politicians showboating in front of the cameras.
 
It wouldn't surprise me if the new revelations that Bertie was sold his house by one of his friends at his Manchester speech turned into a can of worms. If there is anything to close in on, methinks the net is closing in on it.
 
Mel - how very proper of Mr Ahern to avoid favouring any banking institution and just limp by on a cash-only basis. In that, he has many august precedents (and presidents) in Nigeria, Congo, Liberia, Zimbabwe... not to mention the building, tarmacking and block-paving trade.
 
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