Betfair Reduction Factor.

icebreaker

icebreaker

At the Start
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
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Does anybody on this earth fully understand the Betfair Reduction Factor mechanism in the Place market when there is more than one withdrawal in a race?
Do Betfair staff themselves even understand it ! After this morning's most frustrating phonecall of my life to Betfair Towers I'm convinced they do not.
I was told that Betfair's reduction factor mirrors the Rule 4 on-course deductions. After my experience in yesterday's Kerry National, it is clear to me they most certainly don't!
I have been well-and-truly screwed over.

It would seem that in the case of multiple withdrawals, the reduction factor is applied to price AND stake.
It gets worse, it appears to me that Betfair calculate a Reduction Factor on the assumption of a 100%-101% overround book, but this is definitely not the situation ( a very low market over-round) when a second horse has been withdrawn shortly after the first and the market has not got "back into gear".

Specifically, my main beef is that I now realise that the Reduction Factor is calc-ed on a horse's odds 30 minute before the Off; no re-adjustment is made by Betfair if that withdrawn horse has drifted markedly in the few minutes before the race ( and withdrawal). A 4/1 horse at 14:10 hours could have drifted to 9/1 by the time of it's withdrawal at 14:27, yet you are hit with the Reduction Factor appropriate to the 4/1 price.
 
icebreaker said:
Specifically, my main beef is that I now realise that the Reduction Factor is calc-ed on a horse's odds 30 minute before the Off; no re-adjustment is made by Betfair if that withdrawn horse has drifted markedly in the few minutes before the race ( and withdrawal). A 4/1 horse at 14:10 hours could have drifted to 9/1 by the time of it's withdrawal at 14:27, yet you are hit with the Reduction Factor appropriate to the 4/1 price.
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I can't speak for your other questions, but this makes sense. If the RF applies to the price at time of withdrawal, those who know a horse cannot take part can then back it into a ridiculously short price in order to benefit from laying others at under the odds due to a false reduction factor. Using an historical price is a much fairer mechanism.

Of course, the situation of horses which have run loose for 3 miles still being allowed to take part made such shenanigans a tad dangerous.
 
rorydelargy said:
I can't speak for your other questions, but this makes sense. Using an historical price is a much fairer mechanism.
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But, respectfully, that's like saying that Rule4(c) deductions as applied to on-course betting markets should be calculated on the First Show. Which, of course they patently are not; they are calculated on the price at the time of withdrawal.
 
I often play late night American racing and the reduction factor scams are legendary.I would agree that betfair staff are fairly clueless about reduction factors in general-I have known markets to be resettled 16 hours after the event and the methodology can be confusing.
Going off on a tangent I am annoyed by the arrogance of betfair lately and seriously considering moving to betdaq- I understand liquidity is much improved with the exception of in running.
 
You're not wrong there !
Their arrogance is breath-taking; yesterday was the first time I phoned Betfair CS since I joined in 2002 and their (non)Help fundamentally consisted of "take-it-or-leave-it" regarding my Reduction Factor issue. That kinda sticks in the craw when I have suffered a reduction in my winnings that is extortionately higher than the prevailing deductions applied by the rest of the industry.


LUKE said:
seriously considering moving to betdaq- I understand liquidity is much improved with the exception of in running.
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In the past year I've re-ignited my long dormant relationship with the Dublin girl and now only have an occasional one-night-stand with the Scottish girl !
Indeed, liquidity at Betdaq has improved since Betfair increased their Premium Charge. And Betdaq's max 2.5% commission as opposed to Betfair's 5% makes for a "more enjoyable betting experience". :D (Hopefully, they will extend this 2.5% arrangement for another 3 months at the end of September as they have done for the last three quarters). In-play with Miss Purple is definitely still very weak, but in all honesty do any of us on here still offer ourselves as fodder to the rent-a-box lot at the racecourse anymore?
If there is any downside to Betdaq for me, it would be that their in-house API is no match for the third party API's available to Betfair users ( The Toy, Gruss, etc). Although I understand that the Toy developer is working on a version for Betdaq.

Like you, I also bet the American racing and I have noticed a definite decline in liquidity in those markets on Betfair. Last night, a couple of races at Turfway and Presque Isle struggled to get to £3,000 in total each. I reckon the increased Premium Charge has persuaded the bigger traders/market makers to walk away. Not to mention the ridiculous Reduction Factors !!!
 
I got a phonecall from Betfair yesterday asking what it would take for me to start using Betfair again -after a 2 week boycott.
I said I was happy with the alternatives and someone higher up the food chain is calling me on Monday.I know they will offer me a free 100euro bet-anyone got any suggestions how I play this.
 
icebreaker said:
If there is any downside to Betdaq for me, it would be that their in-house API is no match for the third party API's available to Betfair users ( The Toy, Gruss, etc). Although I understand that the Toy developer is working on a version for Betdaq.
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I don't understand what any of that means?
 
Ho ho ho -big fella.
I was thinking more along the lines of a guaranteed lower commission rate-anyone tried asking this from Betfair.
 
Get yourself a nice Betfair jacket and baseball cap. At least you will look like the employee you feel like when you eventually crawl back to them.
 
Dreadful arrogance from Betfair if this morning's report in the Telegraph is true.

"Payment Card Details Of 2.3 Million Betfair Customers Hacked".

Arrogance in that the company did not think it requisite to notify their customers at the time.

I have a fear that my personal details are now compromised ..................... or am I just being paranoid?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...ta-from-Betfair-just-months-before-float.html
 
They've admitted their entire card database was stolen, and that the encryption they used to store the card numbers probably wasn't strong enough to stop the thieves from being able to decrypt them.

They also say it's ok, because the thieves didn't steal the CVV data for the cards. But that's not much of a boast, since they shouldn't be storing the CVV data anyway! But it's good to know that their confident that the huge number of possible CVV combinations (all 999 of them!) will defeat these guys.

Arrogance doesn't even begin to describe it.
 
Gareth Flynn said:
They've admitted their entire card database was stolen, and that the encryption they used to store the card numbers probably wasn't strong enough to stop the thieves from being able to decrypt them.

They also say it's ok, because the thieves didn't steal the CVV data for the cards. But that's not much of a boast, since they shouldn't be storing the CVV data anyway! But it's good to know that their confident that the huge number of possible CVV combinations (all 999 of them!) will defeat these guys.

Arrogance doesn't even begin to describe it.
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Isn't there 1000 3 digit combinations?
 
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