Big Brother And Saudi Racism

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clivex

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I am waiting for two things...

1. the police to "interview" the teachers at that school in Acton (as per big Brother contestants)

2. Ken livingstone to condemn the alleged (but probable of course) racism at a school on his watch (rather than apologising for slavery from 200 years ago)

anyone have any idea how long i will be waiting?
 
Paxo did a good number on the school's Director last night. She says they won't pull the books because 'there are also some good lessons in them'. I'm sure there were some jolly nice bits in Nazi schools' literature, too, and that it wasn't all about Jews being bloodsucking vampires of society. Isn't all faith schools' literature examined for suitability by OFSTED, forum teachers? If not, then the Dept. of Education had better hurry up and start examining what the hell the schools are promoting in the way of religious and racial intolerance. If they do, then what in tarnation are they doing allowing this muck to be taught?
 
I read that today and it was an extraordinary stance to take. Incredible

Yesterday they denied they had these books and then admitted the same. Can we trust what they say now

in a strange way its simply very very sad that people feel that they have to resort to teaching such rubbish
 
When we discussed Wahhabi fundamentalism before, clivex, you might remember I said that they were a serious thorn in the side of Saudi social development. While I know that back home they do their level best to bully everyone into submission, that they avowedly despise Judaism, Christianity, all other religions and even - if not ESPECIALLY - the Shi'ah branch of Islam - I really didn't think they'd gone so far as to promote this garbage in the form it's in, in British schools. I'm actually still very surprised that they've been allowed to print the books at all and that Britain doesn't employ the same sort of watchful eye the Saudis themselves do for subversive publications. Mind you, just an advert for Famous Grouse in a European publication is considered subversive enough to have half the page ripped out!

When you look the buggers up, you'll find plenty on their background with the house of al-Saud, but also their particularly tribal take on Islam. They don't, in fact - and this is something which is cropping up in criticisms far more openly in Saudi Arabia these days - adhere to pure Shari'ah law on so many matters, particularly the rights of women to inheritance, over marriage, divorce, and, of course, women's emancipation through education. They have a great deal in common with movements like the Taleban in those respects, as well as a hatred of luxury (no silk, no adornments, no smoking because it's considered to be a narcotic). They despise the Shi'ites as worthy of death, as they feel they've departed from the 'true' Islamic line. However, they themselves insist on 'interpreting' many of the surahs in the Koran to suit their very austere tribal traditions. Modern, liberal, educated Saudis and other Muslims despise them in turn - it doesn't make for a comfortable existence! I am accordingly amazed that with a country showing every sign outwardly at home of trying to progress (particularly in regard to women), the Saudi Govt. has allowed this garbage to reflect upon it.
 
I am accordingly amazed that with a country showing every sign outwardly at home of trying to progress (particularly in regard to women), the Saudi Govt. has allowed this garbage to reflect upon it.
Click to expand...

Well....they do have a very long way to go (esp with women) but i think the reason is fear. You have a closer knowledge of Saudi society than me, but isnt it true that this sects influence is quite strong amongst the levers of power?
 
I don't know who it controls within the royal family, though, clivex. There are literally thousands of princes, and they don't bother to count the princesses (natch), so it could have its tentacles around some. Whether they're of any influence is another matter.

A lot of Wahhabi tribal elders do have positions within the ulema, or 'wise men', who pass judgments on court cases and generally pontificate on issues they believe to be Islamic. The first King had to reward them with something for their pains in assisting him to the throne, and these positions go back tribally to that time. These men have thrown up some particularly un-Islamic, dotty decisions recently, which may in the end be their downfall, especially if the Saudi government decides they've gone too far in ridiculing the image of the country. Which, it seems, the majority of Saudi citizens now think they have.

If they have caused a diplomatic furore over their school books, which reflect Wahhabi intolerance, this might give the leverage to the King and his ministers to start clearing them out of their positions on the grounds that, far from upholding 'true' Islam as they insist they are, they're promoting extremist ideology. The day can't come too soon for women, the Shi'ites, and the liberal-minded.
 
It's all kicking off now in the Kingdom over the forced divorce of a woman, whose half-brothers say her husband lied about his status in his tribe. (In other words, they consider him too 'not good enough for yow'). The Court of Cassation, with wizened old Wahhabi judges making up most of its elder statesmen, ruled that she could be divorced even though she and her husband are extremely happy and are expecting a baby in a month. They've put the woman in jail! There is letter after letter, growing more and more outspoken, in the English Arab News, so goodness knows what's in Arabic papers. The letters say the actions of the Shari'ah court are not Islamic, they're making a fool of the country and how it looks abroad, and are deliberately causing distress to the woman and her husband, who only want to be reunited. The gist is that it's time to get rid of these mean-spirited, detached, and out-of-touch 'superiors'.

That should play well with a general bringing-down of the Wahhabis who've accrued too much power for themselves, especially in the courts. Not a word tonight about the text books in the UK media, though - I'm amazed that the Chief Rabbi and the Archbish haven't had a great deal to say about their people being referred to as monkeys and pigs respectively.
 
re last para...agree...but then again i suppose it would be seen as giving these idiots some sort of credibility.

Given his supposed concerns about racism and the fact taht the school is in London, would have expected a comment from Ken? Of course not

If a Jewish or Christian school had been teaching this stuff, then he would have been banging on about it day and night....


Hopefully things are changing in Saudi, but it must still surely remain the most oppresive place for women in the world today (now the taleban have gone)? Long long way to go....
 
The Taleban are in Afghanistan and never in Saudi. They are still being tackled in that country, since they are only out of power, not out of the fighting. They've just reneged on a deal to keep out of one town by re-taking it, so British troops are going in again to haul them out by any means.

No, Saudi Arabia isn't by any means the most oppressive place for women. You can probably top that list with Afghanistan's Taleban-held places, where women are forcibly denied education, and must be fully covered-up by day and never seen by night. There are a whole load more restrictions, but we don't have time.

Then there are the Muslim African countries where hacking off a young girl's clitoris (circumcision) while she's fully conscious, is a 'religious' duty. It's so she won't be tempted to try to find sexual pleasure - other than that gained (I'm being sarcastic) when, at 11 or 12, she's 'given' in an arranged marriage to some bloke looking for a nice young virgin to add to his ageing stable. What could thrill a young woman more? It's no more than mutilation followed by legalized rape, but all sanctioned by the helpless girls' government. Girls who refuse to be mutilated and run away are considered to be unclean and unworthy of marrying. The girls seem to think that's a fair trade.

There are thousands of examples elsewhere of women being denied education on the grounds that it's nothing they need to know, since they WILL be married and they WILL have children, which is enough for them - Saudi Arabia is way down that list, I can assure you. Women can own and run their own businesses, they can become millionaires in their own right and employ staff. They can go to overseas universities, fully paid by the Saudi government, and return (or stay abroad) as doctors, lawyers, geophysicists, engineers, teachers, psychiatrists, paediatricians, dentists, on and on. But they can't drive their own car when they're in their home country, and they're supposed to obtain the permission of their MALE 'guardian' (note, not their Mum) if they want to marry. However, it's been noted that rather a lot are opting not to bother to marry any more, and as recent cases of tribally-induced forced divorces are headlining right now, with furious letters and petitions being written by both women and more liberally-minded men to denounce these practices, it may a fairly short period of time before Saudi loosens some of its stays and gets in line with the rest of the Gulf.
 
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