Cafe Bars

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Melendez

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Government to create 'cafe-bar' licence

15 April 2005 22:11
The Minister for Justice, Michael McDowell, has announced that the Government intends to create a new 'cafe-bar licence'.

The licence would require qualifying establishments to provide hot food on the premises as well as alcoholic and non-alcoholic drinks during opening hours.

It is one of the proposals to be contained in the Intoxicating Liquor Bill.

The main purpose of the Bill is to streamline licensing laws by repealing all 600 existing provisions and replacing them with one Act.

All retail liquor licences will now go through the District Court, a new nightclub permit will replace the current exemption order and there will be new arrangements for theatre licence provisions.

The new cafe-bar licence will be available for premises smaller than 130 square metres and will cost less than the going rate for pub licences.

A cafe-bar would operate under the same opening hours as pubs.

Mr McDowell said he hoped the development would help encourage a shift away from binge drinking and would counteract the trend towards super pubs.

The bill does not propose any significant changes in opening hours. A public consultation period will now follow until the end of May.
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When I first heard this proposal, I thought it was a great idea. Basically you can set up a cafe bar wherever you like (subject to planning applications) and pay a cheap licence fee of , I think, €5K. The whole point is to try and create a more continental style culture of going out, having a bite to eat and a couple of beers or a bottle of wine, instead of just going out on the piss for the night.

As expected, the vintners association were all against it as it devalues their current members' licences. More surprising was that the Gardai and various medical associations have also come out against it, on the basis that it will make alcohol more freely available and just add to the drink related problems.

Despite the objectors quoting various stats and research to back up their claims, personally, I think their fears are poorly founded, I can't see the establishment of these cafes doing anything other than increase the incidence of moderate drinking, while reducing the amount of binge drinking. Maybe there will be a higher volume of alcohol sold overall, but surely the reduction in binge drinking is the primary target.
 
I watched Booze Britain last night and I was disgusted. Anything to get the binge drinkers under control must be a step forward. Some of the shots they were drinking were 40% - and the girls were drinking these after 3 bottles of wine.... just to warm up. :blink:
 
Originally posted by Kathy@May 23 2005, 02:44 PM
Anything to get the binge drinkers under control must be a step forward. 
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Kathy, the proposal won't help "Booze Britain". It's the Irish government that has made the announcement.

(Though I think it's a good idea and would very much like to see it here - these "Café bars" are smething with which we are all familiar throughout continental Europe)
 
Do they not binge drink in Ireland then Brian? Silly me, I thought Dublin was one of the worst cities in Europe for binge drinking, even if it is not shown on "Booze Britain". I think other cities have similar problems even if they are not shown on the telly. B)
 
And no, binge drinking is not something with which the Irish were familiar until the Temple Bar area of Dublin became popular with hen parties and stag parties visiting from guess where?

The phrase "binge drinkling" is a media creation which is fairly new and is not to be confused with heavy drinking. The binge element is thought to caused in the main by our licensing laws, which are not shared by other European countries, including the Republic of Ireland.
 
Perhaps, I have miread the following article Brian. Research should be done prior to making sweeping statements perhaps?

Irish Society Must Address Binge Drinking to Avoid Fetal Alcohol Syndrome - Researcher at TCD
April 29, 2005
The University of Dublin, Trinity College

The Irish Government needs to increase its efforts in the prevention, diagnosis and treatment of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, according to a researcher in the field. Speaking today (Friday 29 April), Prof. Susan Ryan, Fulbright Scholar at TCD stated that Fetal Alcohol Syndrome is the biggest cause of non-genetic intellectual disability in the western world and the only one that is 100% preventable.

Statistics show that Fetal Alcohol Syndrome occurs in 3 to 6 of every 1,000 live births, according to research conducted by the Center for Disease Control in the USA. Applying this research to Ireland, there could be 177 to 354 babies born each year with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. These figures could be as high as 1,770 if all the alcohol related neurological disorders were included. The effects of maternal consumption of alcohol on the baby can include physical abnormalities, behavioural and learning disabilities. Prevention efforts by society and the Government would change these statistics, stated Prof. Ryan.

“There is a critical need for society in Ireland to address the growing culture of binge drinking among young women,” stressed Prof. Ryan. “Binge drinking can cause risks to the unborn child. No amount of alcohol has been proven safe during pregnancy. Alcohol consumption during pregnancy can cause Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. The children in Ireland effected by alcohol need services and supports”.

Prof. Ryan was speaking on the occasion of Dr. Kieran O’Malley of the University of Washington, Seattle giving a presentation in Trinity. Dr. O’Malley is a Child and Adolescent psychiatrist from Belfast. He has worked with Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder patients for 15 years in Canada and the USA. His presentation ‘Multimodal Management Strategies for Families of Children & Adolescents with Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorders’ was organised by the National Institute for the Study of Learning Difficulties, TCD in collaboration with FAS Ireland.
 
Binge drinking, which I would define as drinking with the express purpose of getting drunk, is very much on the go, and worsening, in Dublin and throughout Ireland.
 
Thanks Melendez.

Mind you Brian did mention Binge Drinkling... perhaps that is different? :blink:
 
Binge drinking is not the same as "heavy drinking" as Brian puts it. Alcohlics can drink every night (and day) of the week and be constantly drunk. Binge drinking refers to those who go out on one or two nights a week and get uncontrollably drunk. The medical profession has been seeking to highlight the fact that is is in fact as damaging to health as drinking constantly.

Brian in no way said that binge drinking wasn't prevalent in Ireland now (it certainly is), just that it wasn't in the past.
 
Have to say that those places in Glasgow which have opened along the lines described above have fairly rapidly declined into being much the same as any other pub. Which is a shame as I quite enjoyed the original atmosphere of the one I particularly have in mind.
 
It is hard to see how McDowell can set up legislation to avoid that happening. A small pub with a microwave oven that sells sausage rolls could easily be described as a cafe bar. Hopefully he will come up with something clever and enforceable.
 
The place I have in mind (The Taverna) started off with a nice Mediterranean feel to the building, big windows in a suntrap (assuming there is any), nice Mediterranean menu, comfy chairs in the bar area. They still do the food although it has descended more towards scampi and chips, the decor and the furnishings are the same, it's just full of people who just want booze (with scampi on the side).

I suppose it's a bit like urban regeneration programmes, where you knock down "disadvantaged" areas, replace them with nice houses, and then stick the same arseholes that were in them before back in - they don't stop being destructive knobends just because you've given them a shiny new house.
 
It's quite easy to avoid the binge-drinking culture in Belfast. There is a profusion of places where you will see people completely snowballed, but there is also plenty of small wine bars and quieter more upmarket bars where it is possilbe to have either a quiet drink or a more relaxed night out.

I'd like to see a bit more of the "continental" atmosphere come in over here. These "cafe bars" seem to be a good idea, but I agree with Melendez. Hopefully there will be no loopholes to wriggle through or it'll just be used a way to get a cheap license.
 
The owners must be under pressure to make them pay quickly hence pandering to the lower denominators rather than holding their ground and toughing it out for a longer period in order to acquire a regular, appreciative clientele.

I love continental cafe bars but I also like going into the no-frills ones down the back streets frequented by locals but which are generally unattractive to tourists.

They might have to go upmarket in this country to survive but there are times whe I feel almost obliged to have a pint when I really just fancy an ordinary white coffee in a continental atmosphere rather than a twee tea-room one.
 
anything more than three pints is binge drinking- fact



i am sure we are all guilty of binge drinking
 
Dara, there are some people who never touch any kind of alcohol and the piss artists cannot understand it and ask " how do you enjoy yourself" ? ;)
 
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