Churchill Won The British Version

:lol: That is unreal!! I would have thought the obvious one would be Henry Tudor - but nope, only 142 votes!! Not a vote for Owen Tudor either who founded arguably the greatest Royal Dynasty Britain has ever known - unbelievable!!!
 
Originally posted by Shadow Leader@May 28 2005, 06:10 PM
:lol: That is unreal!! I would have thought the obvious one would be Henry Tudor - but nope, only 142 votes!! Not a vote for Owen Tudor either who founded arguably the greatest Royal Dynasty Britain has ever known - unbelievable!!!
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Owen Tudor was a commoner and Master of the Horse to Catherine de Valois, the widow of Henry V - what right to the throne did his descendants really have?. They went through a form of marriage that may or may not have been legal and had two children, Edmund and Jasper, who may or may not have been illegitimate. So Owen Tudor was just someone who worked his way in, being in the right place at the right time.

Henry Tudor, whose somewhat spurious claim to the throne had illegitimacy on both sides, spent most of his life in France prior to invading.

If I were Welsh and voting with an eye on history I would have been making a choice between Llewellyn ap Iorworth and Llewellyn ap Gruffudd, the grandfather and grandson who united the many princes and forged Wales into one nation.
 
Brian, regardless of whether Owen Tudor was a commoner or not he still founded the Tudor dynasty who are, arguably, (in fact I think there is little doubt that they are) the greatest Royal dynasty Britain has ever had ruling. I realise that it was a tenous link in the first place that gave Henry Tudor the claim on the throne (through Owen Tudor's alleged marriage to Catherine of Valois) but it was there nonetheless for Henry to cite when staking his right to the crown, before he reinforced that link by marrying Elizabeth of York, uniting the houses of York & Lancaster. I'd argue that gave Owen a good case to be named as a Welsh hero - he certainly has a better claim to it than virtually every other name on the list!
 
Owen Tudor was a chancer. What right did any of his descendants have to inherit the throne?

But never mind that, have you ever been at Cardiff and seen and heard the rection when the British national anthem is played? Surely if you are voting for a great Welshman you want to consider the people who forged your country from a diverse group of principalities and robber baronies into a nation rather than someone who has a link, however tenuous, to the English throne?
 
I would have thought that very few Welsh people who attend international rugby matches at Cardiff regard "God save the Queen" as the "British" National Anthem.
It is thought of as very much the ENGLISH National Anthem. And certainl on an International day in Cardiff they certainly wouldn't want to be regarded as English.
All in the nicest possible way of course. :D

Colin
 
Which is precisely what I said - though GSTQ is, of course, the British national anthem.

I agree with Billy Connolly - it should be replaced with "The Archers" signature tune.
 
Even if Owen Tudor was a chancer you can't surely question that the Tudor dynasty was a great English Royal dynasty? He hardly had a tenous link to the dynasty either - it was quite a lot more than that, he was Henry VII's grandfather!

I'd also have thought that the Welsh would love it that the greatest English Royal dynasty actually had Welsh roots, hence why they would want to vote for him as a great Welshman.
 
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