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Again, not having it, Paul.

NR won the Hennessy off 155 and did it in much more convincing style than UTPT in the Ultima. He then won a Welsh Nash off the same mark (again looking equally convincing), before trotting-up in a G2 and finishing 3rd in a Gold Cup.

UTPT has been well-placed by Pipe, but scrambling home off 153 in the Ultima, isn't remotely near the same level as Native River, imo. For context, they have met three times over fences, with NR beating UTPT 19L in the Hennessy, 14L in the Mildmay, and 4L (conceding 7lbs) as a novice in the Worcester.

You presumably have some magic-beans at your disposal, if you can make the figures produce "nothing in it".

Edit: Also worth pointing out that both Might Bite and Our Duke are already rated higher than UTPT. It's acknowledged that the ORs are just an expression of an opinion, but the "improve past him" bit isn't valid where MB and OD are concerned. They are already conclusively better than UTPT, in my view.

<blockquote data-quote="Grasshopper" data-source="post: 2572262" data-attributes="member: 65342">Again, not having it, Paul.NR won the Hennessy off 155 and did it in much more convincing style than UTPT in the Ultima. He then won a Welsh Nash off the same mark (again looking equally convincing), before trotting-up in a G2 and finishing 3rd in a Gold Cup. UTPT has been well-placed by Pipe, but scrambling home off 153 in the Ultima, isn&#039;t remotely near the same level as Native River, imo. For context, they have met three times over fences, with NR beating UTPT 19L in the Hennessy, 14L in the Mildmay, and 4L (conceding 7lbs) as a novice in the Worcester.You presumably have some magic-beans at your disposal, if you can make the figures produce &quot;nothing in it&quot;. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool&nbsp; &nbsp; :cool:"&nbsp; data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" />Edit: Also worth pointing out that both Might Bite and Our Duke are already rated higher than UTPT. It&#039;s acknowledged that the ORs are just an expression of an opinion, but the &quot;improve past him&quot; bit isn&#039;t valid where MB and OD are concerned. They are already conclusively better than UTPT, in my view.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Grasshopper, post: 2572262, member: 65342"] Again, not having it, Paul. NR won the Hennessy off 155 and did it in much more convincing style than UTPT in the Ultima. He then won a Welsh Nash off the same mark (again looking equally convincing), before trotting-up in a G2 and finishing 3rd in a Gold Cup. UTPT has been well-placed by Pipe, but scrambling home off 153 in the Ultima, isn't remotely near the same level as Native River, imo. For context, they have met three times over fences, with NR beating UTPT 19L in the Hennessy, 14L in the Mildmay, and 4L (conceding 7lbs) as a novice in the Worcester. You presumably have some magic-beans at your disposal, if you can make the figures produce "nothing in it". :cool: Edit: Also worth pointing out that both Might Bite and Our Duke are already rated higher than UTPT. It's acknowledged that the ORs are just an expression of an opinion, but the "improve past him" bit isn't valid where MB and OD are concerned. They are already conclusively better than UTPT, in my view. [/QUOTE]

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