• REGISTER NOW!! Why? Because you can't do much without having been registered!

    At the moment you have limited access to view all discussions - and most importantly, you haven't joined our community. What are you waiting for? Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join Join Talking Horses here!

Frankel v Brigadier Gerard. The greatest showdown.

B

brigust

Amateur Rider
Joined
Jan 6, 2023
Messages
31
Location
Uffington
Hi everyone. I have just posted a video, named above, on YouTube. I just get fed up with the hype. Any questions, please ask. I will do my best to answer.
 
Apologies for the delay in response the messages went into junk. And I am certainly not implying they are junk. Any questions you want to ask or points you want to raise I am ready.
 
As Frankel and Brigadier Gerard are never actually going to meet, so I will never have chance to have a bet on it (even if I wanted to) I don't actually care.

Throw in the fact that, like many here, I've been following racing a lifetime - and am perfectly capable of forming my own independent opinion without consulting anyone else's material - and I'd need to be trapped in a lift with Walsworth and Maurice simultaneously berating me for using self-service supermarket checkouts (and thus apparently being directly responsible for the national rate of unemployment) before I'd consider watching a YouTube video on this subject as light relief.

But then I wouldn't want to go to a Taylor Swift concert either - and loads of people seem to like her - so maybe you'll be inundated.
 
Last edited:
Without wishing to disrespect Brigust in anyway...

I will admit I gave it a go, hoping it would maybe be something along the lines of the 'virtual' Grand National (which even C4 appears to have binned, thankfully) just to see what some form of AI might conclude.

It was shaping up as one person offering their opinion backed up by videos of some of the races so I gave up after about 20 seconds, a wee bit disappointed with myself for letting it get that far.

Like others, I know my own opinions and can access the videos any time I want on Youtube so I'm sorry, Brigust, but your video isn't for me.
 
Ian_Davies said:
As Frankel and Brigadier Gerard are never actually going to meet, so I will never have chance to have a bet on it (even if I wanted to) I don't actually care.

Throw in the fact that, like many here, I've been following racing a lifetime - and am perfectly capable of forming my own independent opinion without consulting anyone else's material - and I'd need to be trapped in a lift with Walsworth and Maurice simultaneously berating me for using self-service supermarket checkouts (and thus apparently being directly responsible for the national rate of unemployment) before I'd consider watching a YouTube video on this subject as light relief.

But then I wouldn't want to go to a Taylor Swift concert either - and loads of people seem to like her - so maybe you'll be inundated.
Click to expand...
Hi Ian. This is a forum, regularly frequented I guess by grownups. If you do not have an opinion you don't have to write in to tell us you do not have an opinion. It sort of defeats the object. But, if you are under 12, I apologise because you would not know that and you should be out on the playground.
 
Desert Orchid said:
Without wishing to disrespect Brigust in anyway...

I will admit I gave it a go, hoping it would maybe be something along the lines of the 'virtual' Grand National (which even C4 appears to have binned, thankfully) just to see what some form of AI might conclude.

It was shaping up as one person offering their opinion backed up by videos of some of the races so I gave up after about 20 seconds, a wee bit disappointed with myself for letting it get that far.

Like others, I know my own opinions and can access the videos any time I want on Youtube so I'm sorry, Brigust, but your video isn't for me.
Click to expand...
Try not to apologise for being disrespectful Desert, then be disrespectful. I don't know if you read my threads but I did say 'If you have any questions or any points, with regard to the content of the video, please ask". I am not sure you understood what I meant but what I didn't say was "if you have any inane questions to ask that make you look silly then blast away". Well at least you have achieved that goal. And that was your second error on this thread in trying to attempt a credible dialogue.
 
I was genuinely trying not to be disrespectful, Brigust.

I will continue to try not to be disrespectful so will post no more on this thread to avoid any misunderstanding on your part of my intentions.
 
barjon said:
So far as I see the only one being disrespectful, brigust, is you in your responses.
Click to expand...
You don't think when someone says they gave up after 20 seconds and was disappointed for letting it get so far isn't being disrespectful then I am afraid we will have to agree to disagree Barjon. Fair and balanced comment is not a lot to ask for on an adult forum.
 
I'm not actually bothered what anyone says about me, but Maurice is an absolute gentleman who was simply being honest about his personal opinion.

Being "adult" and making "fair and balanced comment" isn't defined as always saying and writing what you want to hear and read and it could be argued that what's really disrespectful is coming on a racing forum and assuming you are in a position to educate others about the relative merits of Frankel, Brigadier Gerard - or anything else, come to that.
 
Ian_Davies said:
I'm not actually bothered what anyone says about me, but Maurice is an absolute gentleman who was simply being honest about his personal opinion.

Being "adult" and making "fair and balanced comment" isn't defined as always saying and writing what you want to hear and read and it could be argued that what's really disrespectful is coming on a racing forum and assuming you are in a position to educate others about the relative merits of Frankel, Brigadier Gerard - or anything else, come to that.
Click to expand...
I am sorry you feel that way Ian when I guess everyone who comes on here is trying to educate readers whether it is with tipping information or weather information because that is the very nature of a forum. I am not offering anything just saying I have produced a video should anyone be interested. What you should definitely be bothering about is that the information in the video is something you will never have heard or seen before from any of the racing tv outlets or the racing press. That is what you should be worried about, being treated like a mushroom by the horseracing media. Why do you think Racing UK did a comparison between Frankel and Secretariat, a US dirt horse, instead of Brigadier Gerard who was voted racehorse of last century and is the almost the identical twin to Frankel on form?
 
Don't presume to tell me (or anyone) what I (or they) should or shouldn't be bothered about, there's a good chap.

It's not your place, or anybody's place.

You don't know anything about me, my background or level of knowledge - in point of fact I'm about as interested in what the racing media think about anything as I am in what you think about anything - i.e. not at all.

What people like you who eternally obsess about who historically was best - whether it's Frankel, Brigadier Gerard, Secretariat or anyone else. - never seem to understand is that some simply don't share your fixation with a hypothetical "race" that will never happen and that's their prerogative.

Or even if they do, that they are capable of forming independent opinions without your "help."

Christ, and some think I'm patronising and condescending - you could give lessons on both. 😂
 
Last edited:
Ian_Davies said:
Don't presume to tell me (or anyone) what I (or they) should or shouldn't be bothered about, there's a good chap.

It's not your place, or anybody's place.

You don't know anything about me, my background or level of knowledge - in point of fact I'm about as interested in what the racing media think about anything as I am in what you think about anything - i.e. not at all.

What people like you who eternally obsess about who historically was best - whether it's Frankel, Brigadier Gerard, Secretariat or anyone else. - never seem to understand is that some simply don't share your fixation with a hypothetical "race" that will never happen and that's their prerogative.

Or even if they do, that they are capable of forming independent opinions without your "help."

Christ, and some think I'm patronising and condescending - you could give lessons on both. 😂
Click to expand...
Hmm. This is a forum you know Ian? Where people exchange ideas and discuss certain issues pertaining to that forum. In this case a horseracing forum.

If you don’t want to know any ideas or issues discussed or put forward for discussion on this forum then just ignore them. That is something everyone can do or, on the other hand, if they are interested they can join in the discussion and put forward their points of view pertaining to that discussion.

When someone jumps up and down shouting at those who are interested in different aspects of horseracing that they are not interested in then they are what is known as a ‘spoiler’. Or someone who tries to spoil the enjoyment of others who may be interested in that particular subject.

All I did was put forward the name and title of a video I had spent months researching and producing should anyone, including members of this horseracing forum, be interested in but, if you think that is condescending or patronising then I apologise. Personally I think the correct and right place to put forward anything pertaining to horseracing, for open and fair discussion, is this forum.
 
It was your subsequent postings (and not just to me) I found condescending and patronising.

That aside, I take your point and I shall now exit this thread (as Maurice wisely did earlier) to make way for those who want to debate the relative merits of Frankel and the Brigadier (both great horses).
 
An interesting watch, brigust. I enjoyed it, although some of the conclusions raised my eyebrows - Brigadier Gerard 21lb better than Frankel in one section, for example. I loved the Brigadier and was there for the majority of his wins - I’d not seen better until Frankel came along. It’s a shame you couldn’t include some of his runs (particularly the 2000 Guineas which was a mind boggling run) because the difference between the two was that Frankel was rarely out of second gear and never had to be asked in any way seriously.

So, much as I loved the Brigadier, I think he’d be hard pressed to deal with Frankel who remains the best I’ve seen to my eye. So what, though :)
 
Last edited:
What a lovely post, thank you Barjon.
I am a Frankel fan as well. You may be surprised to hear, and I wish others would stop saying the 2000 Guineas he won was sensational. Or words to that effect. It was a complete disaster of a ride. Frankel should have won by at least 12 lengths, hard held, the distance he beat Dubawi Gold the next time they met. Instead his jockey let him run himself into the ground finishing tired and being caught by Dubawi Gold in the closing stages. His worst performance against that horse. It was only the ridiculous, screaming comments by the commentator which deflected from him being ridden so badly. In my humble opinion it was a complete disaster of a ride and, I believe, it nearly cost him the St James Palace Stakes the next time he ran.
As far as Frankel 'rarely coming out of second gear' well he emptied 4 times in his career, the 2000 Guineas, St James Palace Stakes, Queen Anne Stakes and Champion Stakes where, in all those races, the second horse was catching him. Not because he was easing down but because he had run his race. That is why I believe Henry never ran him over shorter or longer distances. And, lets face it Frankel, for a free running, front running pacemaker led racehorse only beat average time on three occasions all on new laid racing surfaces, Ascot, Doncaster and York.
But it is all opinion and conjecture exactly the opposite to what my video is.
 
I would just like to add I haven't watched the video as yet but I am very disappointed by some of the comments on here.

Brigust (who is a new member to the forum) posted a video which he? is perfectly entitled to do so and asked for some feednback/comments. The subsequent replies from others were downright rude prompting a defensive reaction from him and hardly constitute a warm welcome from members on here.

The forum is a much nicer place than that, Brigust - its just some on here who think they have the right to be unpleasant. Apologies as the vast majority of us are perfectly reasonable people.
 
Apologies for my tongue firmly in cheek comment, I was just shite stirring.

20 years posting and I should know better.

I'm going to bend over and try to spank myself right now.
 
I haven’t watched the clip yet, but the comments are interesting from the YouTube commentators. I do love trenchant opinions, and you’ll rarely see them more trenchantly expressed than when discussing racing! People treating their favourite horses like their favourite football teams. I look forward to the clip.

And I take Jinny’s point. It’s almost as though Gigilo and others knew of Brigust previously, such was the unfriendly tone of their initial responses.
 
Back
Top