Govt Broadcasting Green Paper On BBC

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ardross
  • Start date Start date
A

Ardross

Guest
I think that Jowell has got this about right. I remain of the view that the licence fee is the proper way to fund the BBC and that the Govt was right to reject the Burns report which was all about grubby Murdoch hands getting their hands on public money and the emasculation of the Beeb .

I welcome the idea of programme standards . That should not mean the end of entertainment , that is bollocks but a better balance and an end to dumbing down -
 
Anyone who objects to the 33p a day that a TV licence costs should be force-fed American TV for about six months - they'd soon change their mind.
 
One of the thing I admire most about The UK is The BBC*. Don't let them f#ck it up please.

* Except Willie Carson.
 
Brian and James,

I have no objection to the licence fee or the level at which it is levied. What concerns me is how that huge amount of money is spent/wasted.
I confess that my consumption of BBC programmes is limited to sports and news coverage and I am concerned about the millions?? that are being frittered away on populating our screens and airwaves with ex-professional sports celebrities.
I think you are all aware of the people I mean on the racing coverage, so I won't bore you with names, with the athletics Brendan Whossizface, Sally Gunnell, Steve Cram all good, if not great, athletes but should that guarantee them a job for life.I listen to a lot of football coverage on 5 Live and at the moment listeners have the pleasure of hearing the summarising of Graham Taylor, now whatever your opinions of him as a football manager/ tactitian I think you will agree that his use of the English language is at best "quaint".

It is just not the quality of the "presenters" or their journalistic abilities it is the number of them as well.

During the latest Olympic coverage I felt strongly enough to contact the BBC about how much their outpost cost. They were not prepared to divulge that and they felt that the number of presenters was justified by the quality of the coverage. I disagreed then and I still disagree. Since when did quantity equal quality.

Sorry for the rant but it is a bit of a hobby-horse of mine.

Colin
 
This is a particularly nerdy subject of mine - I feel that the licence fee and the concept of public service broadcasting is completely outdated - a lot of my opinions on the topic are covered within this excerpt from an essay I did many years ago [3 years ago]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The British Broadcasting Corporation [BBC] is perhaps the most eminent and famous national broadcaster in the world, and therefore the examination of it’s practice back in the 1980’s played a key role in accelerating the debate about establishing a free media market. The Peacock Commission on the Finance Of the BBC was established to examine the unpopularity of the licence fee and the possibility of the national institution introducing advertising as an alternative. In France, the state broadcasters were allowed use advertising from the start, similar in quantity to the commercial channels. When deprived of public funding, the French government looked to further advertising as a method of reducing the unpopular licence fee. However, the groundbreaking Peacock Commission instead made several alternative suggestions that form the basis of the pro-free media market argument today. The idea of examining the possibility of a subscription service on BBC as opposed to a licence fee was suggested, as was the abolishing of the legal obstacles to pay per view/pay per channel. Samuel Brittan, a member of the Committee and journalist with the Financial Times explained the thinking behind the subscription plan in an article on the recommendations and ramifications of the report. “The poor will not be worse off in any absolute sense, so long as they can still watch a range of programmes as wide as the present advertising financed ITV ones free, and the cost of buying BBC type programmes is no higher than what the licence fee would have been”. # This appears to be a vital component of the argument espoused by liberals today. With the subscription remaining similar pricewise to the licence fee, the onus would be on the BBC to finance and provide quality programming that would encourage people to subscribe to the channel. In a democratic society, it is argued, television holders should not be obligated to essentially fund a channel they do not watch. As Brittan explained at the time, “British broadcasting should move towards a sophisticated system based on consumer sovereignty. That is a system which recognises that viewers and listeners are the best ultimate judges of their own interest, which they can best satisfy if they have the option of purchasing the broadcasting services they require from as many alternative sources of supply as possible.” # Speaking in 1985, this was a unique and innovative suggestion from the Peacock Committee, but eighteen years on the structure of terrestrial television in Great Britain essentially remains the same.

The problem with state broadcasters and a regulated market, according to several sources, is the fact that the national stations are considered to be inefficient and heavily reliant on their government, as it decides the level of the licence fee. The BBC in the 1980’s, according to Brittan, was enjoying an unjustly elevated position, with a poor attitude to go with it. “Some BBC officials are so used to the idea of being financed by what is virtually a tax on the possession of a television set that they do not realise how privileged and unusual their position is.#” In Ireland, RTE has suffered severe financial losses over the years, and recently laid off a large percentage of their staff. Yet, in December 2002 they finally received their long term aim of a further licence fee increase to ease their growing problems. Critics looked upon this as a cynical exercise, with conflicting reports suggesting that the timing of the decision was structured around the release of the national budget, seeking lenient treatment on controversial issues from the primary source of news information and discussion on the island. Other countries look at the Irish system of dual funding, whereby RTE charges a licence fee and also uses advertising, a situation that seems unfair to commercial private rivals. As Horgan puts it, “Not only was the licence fee a subsidy to RTE’s non public service programming, the private stations argued, but they too were engaged in substantial public service broadcasting for which they received no subsidy”#. RTE is renowned for importing foreign programmes, with home produced programmes at a premium. Yet, the advantage of the licence fee, in addition to advertising revenue seems undemocratic and unfairly balanced against rival TV3, who also provide public service broadcasts on news and current affairs. RTE incompetence appears to have been overlooked.
The state influence on what is broadcast is also a thorny issue, with several instances over the years bringing people to question the moral ramifications of state involvement in the media. In a modern context, again citing the RTE example, some commentators were suggesting before the licence fee increase that RTE might drop Political Party Ard Fheis as they garner poor audiences in vital prime-time slots. Yet, such a move would displease those in government circles, particularly after they sanctioned the licence fee increase, and value the airtime offered to them by these party conferences. In Britain, the BBC has been involved in several disputes with the government, who felt that the BBC had an overly rebellious faction. During the Falkland and Gulf Wars the respective Conservative governments questioned the full commitment of the BBC behind their cause after several programmes questioning government decisions. One notable flashpoint was a planned Panorama documentary scheduled for just before the 1992 election, named “Sliding Into Slump” which severely questioned the economic state of Britain, citing previous governmental mistakes as a possible cause of future recession. Mindful of the damage it could do to their campaign the Conservative parties made their distaste known to BBC authorities, and eventually the programme was delayed. This is one of the principal problems of the state broadcaster holding such an influence, according to Barnett & Curry. The programme was “exactly the kind of democratic, journalistic function a public broadcaster should be performing for it’s licence payers at a moment of great political significance”#. Subsequently, Panorama investigations on corruption in Conservative Westminster were deferred as a direct result of excessive caution not to offend the government - the BBC were in financial trouble at a time of inflation, and needed a licence fee increase to ease their woes. Such examples of state influence prohibiting the viewer from information they are entitled to demonstrates a clearly undemocratic situation. In a free media market, the government could not impose such sanctions on a station providing the allegations complied with laws of libel, and were properly researched with a high standard of journalism in the production and presentation. As Sergeant explains, public interest defined by the state betrays democratic principles. “This kind of paternalistic approach to what is suitable for viewers implies a suspicion about the ability of individuals to make their own choices.#”
 
simmo, you may have read my postings in the past about the employment of ex-sports people rather than trained journalists. The practice has been copied from the USA where it has been the norm for years. I would suggest, though, that it is not only the BBC that is guilty of the offence - in fact they've gone in most strongly with it since Sky Sports led the way.

I would agree with those who talk about the BBC's inefficiencies - indeed I have what might be termed "inside information" about their manning levels compared with other networks.

But, when it comes down to it the most memorable British made programmes in all fields, as far back as you want to go, have been made by, or for, the BBC. So, on the creative front they are second to none. And despite constant claims of bias, by both of our major political parties - which in itself says something - all over the world when people want a view of world events that they can trust they turn to the BBC.

So, while the licence fee as a method of funding needs to be replaced in this multi-channel world, the baby must be kept in the bath while the bathwater is drained. We should not confuse the issues of funding and efficiency with the constant calls of both the Murdoch press and the Daily Mail group - both of which are of course have no vested interest! - to get rid of the most admired public service broadcaster in the world.
 
But Brian, I think that the strength of the BBC and the name recognition that goes with it is so strong that it will survive on its own anyway. If you went with a subscription system as is favoured in other countries, such as France, I'm sure that the BBC would thrive anyway [Canal Plus is subscribed to by a very high percentage]. Between its world service and the other arms of the BBC, the organisation is surely strong enough to survive without government support.

As the UK grows more multi cultural though, it is important to redefine what a public service broadcaster is. Does BBC provide an adequate level of programming for the Asian community, the Indian community and the other significant sections of the populace [we're talking prime time here, not tokenistic programmes to fulfil quotas late at night].

Ok, I know that they are living in your country and when in Rome etc..... but with the onset of digital television and the end of analogue there will be so many frequences and options available that if a family from China chooses to spend its money on Star TV or whatever the respective station from their particular country of origin is then so be it. Why should they have to pay a licence fee to a station that does not represent their particular interests,

In a homogenous state, the public service broadcaster is perhaps capable of fulfilling its function and being thoroughly representative of those who fund it through the licence fee. But I don't think its feasible as society grows more multi cultural,

Even if the government comes up with alternative ways of funding other than the licence fee, I still feel that the taxpayers money should not be going towards a particular station. After all, as the other networks such as ITV, Sky [despite the obvious Murdoch tilt] provide adequate levels of news and information through their 24 hour news channels its not as if the BBC is irreplacable,

The strength of most original programmes now is in the production company, not the television network itself. It's up to the BBC to compete in an open market, get enough subscribers and then make sure that they can lure the best to their station. Hell, it might even make them efficient
 
There is no doubt in my mind that this will be the last review at which the licence fee is renewed, and that's as it should be given the multiplicity of channels that we are likely to have available to all when the period expires. It is to be hoped that some great mind will think of a method of funding other than by taking advertising.

I know what you mean when you talk of the BBC's World Service - you mean BBC World TV, which I have bumped into in many different places, and which, of course, does broadcast commercials. This is not to be confused though with the BBC World Service, which is purely radio and is totally funded by the government. Although the Foreign Office has been slowly reducing the funding year after year and fewer countries than ever can now receive it.

One final thought - isn't it amazing how all those guys who "never watch BBC" know all the catch phrases and punchlines from Monty Python's Flying Circus, Blackadder, Fawlty Towers, The Fast Show, Harry Enfield, Alan Partridge, The Office, Little Britain etc etc?
 
I know someone who objects to his 33p a day and willingly pays £600 + a year for Sky stuff

I pay for Sky, though nowhere near £600, but that is my choice. I do not have a choice about whether I pay the BBC for their output. In this modern age of television choice, I cannot think of a single reason why they should be given the considerably large amount that they get, which is enforced by law

Subscription seems a great idea to me, especially if it was broken down to individual stations - I am at the moment paying for two BBC cable channels that I can't even get
 
Bobbyjo - what bilge - the market is far from the answer to everything much of the time it is the problem.
 
I emailed BBC during Euro2004 and asked them how much EXTRA licence fee they would like me to pay in return for Mark Lawrenson no longer commentating on their football games.

Predictably, no reply.
 
Care to offer a more detailed response in relation to this specific subject Ardross or are you just going to be flippant.....
 
I don't regard the impact of the market ethic or private companies in the provision of public services as beneficial .

There are numerous examples of this but i shall quote two

PFI and Compulsory Competitive Tendering 9 fortunately now replaced with best value ) for local authority services which was a disaster leading to the lowest common denominator for services in education , housing etc .

AS for broadcasting that is the whole point the BBC is the best public service broadcaster in the world . The deficiencies in its programming have occurred when it has tried to compete with commercial trash .

I regard any suggestion that the licence fee allows it a dominant position unfair on commercial rivals as utter bilge . The BBC's public service remit has meant that it has not for example been able to compete with Sky for the rights to certain sports . Football and now Test match cricket being the most obvious.

It is not a classical market . To regard it as being so is simplistic . Does television broadcasting have a function other than simply providing bread and circuses ? To me it does the old Reithian idea of education ,information and entertainment ought to remain at the heart of the BBC .

To quote Samuel Brittan ( brother of Leon ) and a right wing economist of pretty unorthodox views undermines your essay which frankly on its face seems to be a rechauffeed account of other views .

Moreover, the idea that a licence fee undermines the independence of the BBC does not hold water . The BBC has throughout its history been more than capable of scrutinising the Government of the day . Individual wobbles by Director Generals - disappointing as they are do not detract from this .

Nothing can illustrate more clearly that is not the case than the BBCs approach to Hutton . Although they may well have been wrong in the way they approached this issue they did it fearlessly .

The problem recently has been that renewals of the Royal Charter have been too short . For proper forward planning this should have been longer .

The BBC is as far as i am concerned a national treasure . Perhaps the reason why it is by a country mile the best public service broadcaster in the world - is that it has had a guaranteed means of funding . It has not had to prostitute itself to the advertisers of Sunny Delight etc .

For your final point to say that the interesting programmes come from independent producers alone is utter claptrap . In what many regard as its glory days all programmes are made in house . It is no coincidence that the fame Academies and docusoaps are largely made by private companies .
 
Firstly,

frankly on its face seems to be a rechauffeed account of other views

That is merely a small excerpt but sadly modern Politics Department place a massive emphasis on referencing, anyone who offers their own opinions will find that they have been somewhere before anyway and are duly accused of plagiarism. Sad, but true. You find yourself looking for the quotes to support your view.

For your final point to say that the interesting programmes come from independent producers alone is utter claptrap . In what many regard as its glory days all programmes are made in house . It is no coincidence that the fame Academies and docusoaps are largely made by private companies .

This is exactly my point. You are living in the past. The glory days of the BBC were the mere simplicity of the time. Maybe a licence fee was justified then because the BBC adequately catered for the society which it purported to represent. As a white middle aged male, you perfectly fill the category that is likely to have grown up and felt a strong attachment to the BBC. That day is gone.

I regard any suggestion that the licence fee allows it a dominant position unfair on commercial rivals as utter bilge . The BBC's public service remit has meant that it has not for example been able to compete with Sky for the rights to certain sports . Football and now Test match cricket being the most obvious.

Who says that a public service broadcaster should show all the football matches and cricket matches? The BBC or ITV have the rights to the major championships which are genuinely of 'NATIONAL' interest because non football people are interested. Run of the mill qualifers are not national affairs. Test cricket does not appeal to a large majority of the population - more would watch Coronation Street. Therefore, the BBC should not be spending your money ensuring that these matches are taken away from channels who will in all likelihood give longer and more detailed coverage for the dedicated sports fan.

It is not a classical market . To regard it as being so is simplistic . Does television broadcasting have a function other than simply providing bread and circuses ? To me it does the old Reithian idea of education ,information and entertainment ought to remain at the heart of the BBC .

If I want Education and Information, I will subscribe to the Discovery Channel, or the Biography Channel or any of the History stations. They all do a much better job in this regard. Digital television allows us to be specialised. The BBC was great when TV was a novelty, when that was all that was genuinely available but now we have so many opportunities and the fact is that people should now be able to pick and choose relative to their interests.

The world is changing and broadcasting must move with it. Television stations are not an endangered species, we should trust people to choose to watch what they wish. This must be hard for a nostalgic curmedgeon like yourself to take!
 
Bobbyjo - you simply repeat what is self-interested commercial television and broadcaster orthodoxy . It is too late for me to respond in detail save to say who the F**K are you calling middle aged ! :angy: :cry: Middle aged in my book is 45 plus I am a long way off that . :angry:
 
Back
Top