Historical Inaccuracies in Movies

an capall

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This is obviously a plagarised topic from SLs Tudors thread, but it might have legs on its own.

What are the most annoying/stupid/funny inaccuracies in historical films that you noticed.

Here are a couple;

1. William Wallace banging the French wife of the homosexual prince in Braveheart.

2. DeValera agonising on a haystack beside where Michael Collins was assasinated.

Any others?
 
It has long caused me great distress that in the film A Bridge Too Far, Michael Caine looks nothing like the character he is supposed to be playing.

Nor do any of the other actors/characters.

One would think they could have put a bit more effort in to an otherwise excellent piece of work.


I would also like to nominate Battle of the Bulge for it's historical inaccuracies.

All of it.
 
The film Alexander absolutely stands out for its many inaccuracies - not least the best one, that all the Macedonians were Irish in it!!!!! Also Olympias was far older than was portrayed in the film - not a young, sexy, Angelina Jolie, and I've forgotten the host of other claptrap in the film since when I watched it once, a few years ago, I vowed never to watch such crap again!

Troy is full of rubbish too - if you believed the film you'd have thought that the battle of Troy lasted no more than a couple of weeks, rather than the ten years. (yes, I realise that Troy is a legend, however it is thought by many historians to have happened)

Then there's Gladiator, and virtually any film I've seen involving Caesar!!
 
I also seem to recall that they created some 'exotic' background for Olympias in Alexander also and had her talking with a heavy accent as thoguh she was a foreigner. She originated from a neighbouring Greek state Epirus!
 
We've had this argument over Alexander before. As it is inaccurate for them to be speaking English in the first place, what difference do the accents make?

I don't remember Gladiator ever claiming to be documenting any actual history, but was simply a fictional story set in Roman times.
 
Yeah, I remember the debate! It still seems completely odd to me though.

Gladiator is fictional, but you'd have thought that anything containing actual people (ie the emperor if the time, can't remember which it was) would try to make that bit accurate? It's been so long since I've seen it - they did use an actual emperor didn't they? :confused:
 
Yeah, pretty sure they did, but to me it's no different than various versions of Robin Hood using "real" Kings.
 
The death earlier this week of Eric "Digger" Dowling, one of the architects of The Great Escape (he produced maps and documents), highlighted the ludicrous misreprentation of the events at Stalag Luft 3 in the famous film.

He always felt the film did no justice to those involved in the escape, and was upset by the portrayal of it being all a bit of a jolly jape.

Also, there were no Americans involved in the escape in any way, and he thought the Steve McQueen character was ridiculous. Quite apart from anything else, the Triumph motorcycle he was riding didn't even go into production until nearly 20 years after the war.
 
Ah - you've opened a can of worms there, Ven!! I couldn't really think of much offhand (I'm sure I'll think of more examples at inopportune moments!) but your mention of the yanks throws up all sorts of possibilities.

Don't forget that in pretty much every war film they've ever made, THEY won the war on their own, and the Brits did little more than bimble around and act eccentric :eek:

Then there's the discovery of the Enigma machine!! :rolleyes:
 
Also, there were no Americans involved in the escape in any way, and he thought the Steve McQueen character was ridiculous. Quite apart from anything else, the Triumph motorcycle he was riding didn't even go into production until nearly 20 years after the war.

But Moses had one.. It says in the bible "The roar of Moses' Triumph was heard throughout the land."
 
The Alamo

Would be another.

The actual fighting took place in darkness as it involved an assalut at 4am that lasted about 40 minutes. Far from being garrisoned exclusively by heroic Texans, there was about 13 different nationalities defending it. William Travis was the first person killed. He popped his head over the parapet and duly had it blown off (no heroic snapping of the sword). Davy Crocket probably surrendered (this point is the subject of more dispute) but contemporary Mexican accounts have Crocket with about 7 others surrendering and grovelling for clemency before being executed. Jim Bowie had died a few days earlier of syphillis or similar, or at the very least took little or no part in the battle. The women who is noblely marched out at the end is a prostitute, (I think her name was Dickinson?) far from being the dignified all American heroine, she would end up dead at an early age of alcoholism. Sam Houston far from being unable to relieve William Travis, took a calculated gamble to let him die in the Alamo as both held aspirations to be governor and the fact that the city carries Houston's name today, says it all. Travis himself was some kind of hard drinking, selfish, serial womaniser. The idea that he was some selfless sacrifical man of principle doesn't seem consistent with his life. A couple of the Alamo defenders were killed trying to escape. One person who refused to step over the line drawn in the sand by Travis did indeed have the good sense to leave the Alamo (I think he was an Italian mercenary). The film depeicts the area as borderline desert and a very arid landscape. The Alamo at the time was surrounded by woods

Enemy at the Gate would be another one, although this would involve being pedantic. The name escapes me, but that U boat film about the enigma machine is hysterical. Tend to agree that the Battle of the Bulge is pretty close to being the worst though.

Incidentally Ven, was the Dickie Attenborough character in the great escape not a South African? I certainly understood that there were no Americans involved as they were re-housed in a seperate block about 3 weeks before the break out
 
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The U boat film was called U571.

Indiana Jones was set in WW1, yet they had AK47s

Eliot Ness throwing Frank Nitti off the roof in Untouchables. Nitti actually shot himself.

Jesus Christ Superstar has a few inaccuracies as well....:D
 
In 'Michael Collins' (again) the evil Brits kill Ned Broy (Stephen Rea) and throw him out on the street for infiltrating their spy network at Dublin Castle. This would have been a surprise to Ned who was appointed Garda Commissioner by Dev in the 1930s.
 
I;m sure you're right, Euro. It's been so long since I saw Gladiator (and I wouldn't know about the later emperors anyway, they were pretty much on their way out by then) but I'm sure there was something out about it - probably something small and daft, like the wrong type of something being used for the time period.
 
Incidentally Ven, was the Dickie Attenborough character in the great escape not a South African? I certainly understood that there were no Americans involved as they were re-housed in a seperate block about 3 weeks before the break out

Yes Warbs, Roger Bushell was a South African, although he ended up at an English public school and later Cambriidge University.
 
Anything involving Mel Gibson's direction and has the English or the jews as part of the storyline
 
I'll try and fill in some of the gaps for "Enemy at the Gates" (sniper duel set in Stalingrad for those who are unaware of it).

The balance of probabilities is that the whole story of a duel between the two central characters never took place. Where as Vassili Zaitsev definately existed, and was indisputably a very proficient sniper at Stalingrad, there is no record of a German called Major Koenig ever having been posted there. Neither is there a record for a 'super sniper' sent up from Berlin called Thorveld (the other name periodically assigned to the German opponent). Vassili Zaitsev himself only makes something of a half page concession to the event in his log and later publsihed diary, where he describes an exchange with a German sniper whom he clearly held in high regard as a very worthy adversary. The likelihood is that the Soviet propoganda machine had got to work on the detail, and Zaitsev would have been foolish to risk contradicting it any more than he really had an incentive to do so.

Having said that, there is no harm in making a flim about a story, the problem with this film is that it pretends to be the truth. The opening shots feature Red Army soldiers being moved from the east bank to the west of the Volga in daylight. Such movements only occurred under darkness.

There is the issue of the charge down a street against a heavily defended German position which saw the Red army soldiers getting mowed down. Contrary to popular myth, the Soviets had learned from their mistakes in WW1, and charging machine gun emplacements tended to only have one result. By the time the Germans had entered the city the fighting was done at very close quarters with the frontline typically being a hall in a house with one side in one room, and the other in the adjacent one, or the upstairs and down stairs of a building etc. There would have been no charges of this suicidal nature as depecited in the film. Also the main Red Army weapon was not a single bolt operated rifle which was seen being widley distributed to the army along with a single bullet. A long barrelled weapon of this nature wasn't to much use in the close quarter fighting, and very few photographs taken the Moisen although it would have been used by snipers. The Pulemet Shpagin (PPSh41) was the main issue to the infantry

Although it wasn't unheard of for Russian soldiers to have been sent into battle unarmed in the first world war, with the instruction to pick up a weapon from a fallen comrade etc, the practice had stopped by Stalingrad. Indeed, Soviet military production remained high, and they were quite capable of supplying their frontline soldiers to the extent that they weren't having to rely on 'bullet blockers'

Although soldiers were shot for dessertion, brave soldiers who had partaken in a charge of this nature and were beaten back by the weight of enemy firepower, weren't. Even Soviet Generals realised that you don't win wars by shooting your own side. The Soviet army did have a battalion (the name of it escapes me) whose job it was to stay in reserve and cajole retreating soldiers back to the front, but this wasn't necessarily done at the point of a gun, and more often than not, didn't involve executing those in retreat. Soldiers in retreat had often become disorientated in the confusion of war, and sensing that both their flanks were exposed, were simply falling back to find their own comrades. Very often it was just a case of information flows and explaining where they needed to be. Remember that captured Red Army soldiers had very little prospect of surviving inprisonment and so weren't likely to be easily cowed by their own side, nor were they big on the idea of surrender.

By the time the Germans had got to the tractor factory the battle in the air was even, and certainly nothing like the unopposed turkey shoot that the film portrays with no Soviet aircraft or ground absed AA fire. By the end of the Stalingrad campaign, the Soviets had achieved air supremacy over the luftwaffe. The close quarter fighting also meant that at this point the Stukas and Dorniers featured in the film had largely stopped dropping bombs on the frontline as they couldn't differentiate who they were landing on, although they continued to try and bomb the east bank.

The love interest featured Tania Chernova, who was a student in Zaitsev's snipping school. She was injured by a landmine and not shrapnel whilst overseeing her mothers evacuation as depicted. The operation was a botched atempt to hunt down and snipe Von Palus and went wrong when a lead sniper triggered a land mine causing her wounds. Far from being reunited with Vassili, they never met again after her hospitalisation as both lived in the believe that the other was dead. It was only in 1969 that an American journalist tracked down Tania and informed her that Vassili had survived the war and was in Kiev. They never met though.

Although the film portrays Vassili as a backward and slightly dim innocent of the evil and manipulative commisar those who served with him don't back this up, with many saying he was bright, extremely disciplined, and thorough in every thing he did with a ruthless intensity.

To watch the film you would think that Konig and Zaitsev were the only combatants at Stalingrad, the idea that they could move aroudn with such freedom is most unlikely. This becomes particularly laughable at the climax. The scene features the commisar having a white light moment and denouncing communism (it is Hollywood afterall) before noblely popping his head above a window to have it promptly blown off to give away Konigs position. A spectating commisar was shot on the third day of the cat and mouse game, but Zaitsev did nothing to assist him realising that doing so would likely lead to him being shot too. Unlike the Germans, Soviet snipper teams worked in pairs, with one spotting and the other shooting. It was Zaitsev's partner who drew the Germans fire by using a mit on a stick. After much observation of the no mans land Zaitsev had spotted a sheet of iron under which he felt the sniper might have been (this bit the film features). He wanted to test this theory out and thus used the mit to prove it, with Zaitsevs partner feigning injury with a convincing cry of pain the German raises his head very slightly to try and use his scope as a visual contact. The film prtrays him as climbing out of the fox hole and walking 100 yards across no mans land in broad daylight to claim his trophy. No sniper would ever do that without some very serious observation, and certainly not at Stalingrad where he'd be unlikely to get more than 1 yard. Zaitsev himself recounts that he waited until the afternoon when the sun was behind him and thus likely to catch the Germans telescopic sight before putting his plan into action. It was this glint in the glass that he used to take his aim from, and he wouldn't have altered his position to go and stand by a railway truck when he was better concealed where he was.

Anoraks of the world unite:D
 
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