Hunt Ball 33/1 for 2013 Gold Cup

Tout Seul

Tout Seul

Senior Jockey
Joined
May 2, 2003
Messages
2,628
33's rom StVics for GC2013!
Outrageous or what's a stone to a horse like that? Rated 16 lbs below today's winner.
 
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I thought 50/1 was a big price after he won. Let's be serious it's not like you need a top class horse to win it. There is no superstar out there at the minute and I refuse to believe Sir Des Champs is all that.
 
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SlimChance said:
There is no superstar out there at the minute and I refuse to believe Sir Des Champs is all that.
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At the moment no, but the novice crop was a lot better than last year's and Captain Chris was very eye catching in the Ryanair having had the worst prep possible.
 
without KS and Denman at their best this division it is a bit like the mile one was when Coe & Ovett packed in...we are back to meat & potato stuff as was demonstrated in yesterdays race
 
The penny has probably dropped with the raters now. At their best Kauto and Denman were 180+ winners of the Gold Cup. Unfortunately neither were at that level since 2008/9 (at Cheltenham) hence Imperial Commander and Long Run being incredibly overrated.
 
Hard to argue with you there as a general point but iirc didn't Long Run beat track record ( haven't checked)
 
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He might have done but conditions were perfect for a fast time that day. Decent ground and just another of a pace so the horse finished well.
 
Tout Seul said:
Hard to argue with you there as a general point but iirc didn't Long Run beat track record ( haven't checked)
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handicappers beat track records..quite a few are held by handicappers..bare times are only relevant when all the times on the card are taken into consideration

to put it in perspective..GC is usually about 8 seconds faster than foxhunters..LR's was and yesterdays was
 
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Someone on here foamed at the mouth when I said it before but I have no doubt that Best Mate would have beaten Long Run and Imperial Commander . Eventually, despite the ratings junkies his achievements will be properly recognised - winning three Gold Cups is an amazing thing to do .
 
I think you're correct about BM beating an Imperial Commander or a Long Run. But a top form Denman would have dismantled him.
 
Euronymous said:
I think you're correct about BM beating an Imperial Commander or a Long Run. But a top form Denman would have dismantled him.
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but you could wipe out the last 50 years of GC winners by saying Arkle would have dismantled them.

you coulld wipe out all the derby winners by saying Nijinsky or Sea Bird would dismantle them

Denman and KS at their best would have won most gold cups..but the point is that horses like them don't come around that often...the fact that horses like that do exist should not demean the feats of other horses

Best Mate won 3..not his fault who were around to beat..at end of day its hard enough just getting a horse to 3 GC's fit and ready to run

It could be argued that Denman didn't win enough GC's..reason being he wasn't 100% all the times he ran..well BM was..so thats got to be taken into consideration as well.

I think Denman has been a little overrated raings wise..but to be fair..do ratings really measure what Denman was all about?..the power..that kick he had 4 out when he left horses for dead..no they don't really
 
Best mate was also ground dependent he was a much better horse on good ground .

He was unlucky not to win four - had he not gone wrong in the spring of 2005 he would surely have done so as Kicking King did not stay but was too classy for a field of handicappers on Best Mate's preferred ground .
 
how do you justify this claim

lets see in this bunch of handicappers was sir renbrandt 13 lenghts behind KK

yet the year before he was only 1.5 l behind bm

you confuse a great training regime and equine soundness to great performences they are in fact different

BM did very well to win three gcs and that cant be taken away from him but he was lucky to face moderate opposition and have ground in his favour in 3 years

his main opponents of his time as you said yourself either didnt stay-FP or needed a flat track and soft ground-BOS
 
I might have guessed you would be back to run him down as usual Prince Regent .

Sir rembrandt was a soft ground horse and well on the decline in 2005. KK was out cold on the run in and closed down by Take the Stand .

Best Mate murdered the opposition in the previous three years . AP McCoy who rode him when he was not at his best in the KG regarded him as a great horse and anyone who cannot see that you have to be a great horse to win three Gold Cups is a fool .
 
Does anyone seriously think Hunt Ball is a Gold Cup winner next year.
 
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Bruce_Savage said:
Does anyone seriously think Hunt Ball is a Gold Cup winner next year.
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probably not..but 12 month ago it may have been..does anyone seriously think synchronised can win a GC?..and he had KS and particularly LR who we thought were untouchable..HB hasn't got such a serious threat to his chances
 
Many people thought Synchronised could win a Gold Cup including myself, in fact I would of put this years Gold Cup in the hands of What A Friend had he managed to stay on his feet for longer.

I don't remember anyone considering Long Run and Kauto Star as untouchable, in fact many people this year knew it was a poor renewal hence a lot of trainers and punters put their faith in sub standard horses.

Sir Des Champs looks the one for next year though, don't you think?

Let's not forget Grand Crus.
 
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