Iran

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clivex

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Its all going off...

Little real doubt that the election was a fix. They werent even clever enough to not make it obvious, but the key question is how long will the protests last and will they have alasting effect?

Sadly i can see the heavy state machinery kicking in and this country will continue to be a suppressed pressure cooker

But they cannot suppress the internet and mobile phones for ever and heres hoping that we see the first "facebook" revolution

The president is a repulsive deeply racist (wonder if his attitude to jews is replicated when dealing with obama's race??) worm, but the power there is complex....

Many will say that Iran has the most potential of the major middle eastern states (outside israel of course). backward Afganistan it isnt and despute the clerics efforts, its not quite saudi either. Tradionally an enterprising country with a strongly educated middle class with resources too

Interesting times...
 
Interesting is an understatement...100,000 people out on the streets for a gathering that was declared illegal and the army allowed to use live bullets? Heroic efforts from each and everyone of the protesters to turn out on the street.

Worry now is the majority of the international journalists have to leave by tomorrow as their work visas run out. So what will happen then is a concern.
 
Tremendous pictures, I find this picture particularly moving highlighting the bravery of some people...

i17_19370165.jpg
 
I find it somewhat bizarre that the Iranian people have taken to the streets in such numbers because they feel that an election has been "stolen" from them, yet voters in that cradle of democracy - the US - were essentially mute during the Bush/Gore Florida re-count in 2000.

I hope for the best as regards what's happening in Iran, but I fear the worst. Any kind of absolutist crackdown by the authorities, will surely result in prolonged suppression of dissent, and only drive the country further away from a rapprochement with the West. It would be such a waste, when a genuine olive branch is ready to be extended.
 
Even if there wasnt dissent, the "olive branch" would be rejected. hes too bound up in his past rhetoric and frankly his disgusting views to act inany other way

whatever the issues with 2000, comparing in any way the level of democracy in the US (which is technically greater than in the uk) with Iran is bizarre. but they should have taken to the street swhen kennedy was elected with far more obvious and severe vote rigging than 2000
 
clivex said:
whatever the issues with 2000, comparing in any way the level of democracy in the US (which is technically greater than in the uk) with Iran is bizarre.
Click to expand...

That's kind of my point though, clivex. By any stretch, I would consider the Iranian 'democracy' to be one in name only - something most Iranian's would likely have conceded before the weekend too. Yet here we are with a million people on the streets demanding honesty from elections, in what is essentially a theocratic dictatorship.

The point I was trying to get across is that the democratic process seems to matter much more to the Iranian's, than it did the American's in 2000. This isn't entirely surprising given the particular circumstances in Iran, but there is something about this 'revolution' that uplifts the soul, imo - moreso, say, than those we witnessed in the old Soviet republics over the last 5 years.

I think you are wrong regarding Ahemdinejad. The last two days have been his wake-up call, and I don't think he has sufficient support now to reject any reasonable overtures from the US, should he ultimately be confirmed as President.
 
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Clivex, can I mention, vis-a-vis your initial statement, that Ahmedinajad doesn't have 'views' about Jews - he has a view about the state of Israel. As you ought to know by now, Tehran is home to some 30,000 Jewish Iranians, who have no desire to live in Israel and have lived for generations, peacefully and prosperously, in their own homeland - Iran. The only restriction on their lives is that they can't run for Parliament - not unlike British, Christian restrictions, until Mr Disraeli bucked our anti-Semitic stance.
 
Only about the state of Israel?
Which is why he hosts Holocaust denying conferences with the likes of David Duke invited to participate along with German Neo Nazis and go knows who else?<
Which is why he went on about Jewish conspiracies last year?</P>
So very kind of him to not (yet) banish the relatively small number of Jews remaining in Iran. </P>
No point in discussing any further, other than to say, that holocaust denial (which is ludicrous in itself of course) is purely designed to be deeply offensive to anyone of the jewish faith wherever they live</P>
 
Hi guys , Don't know how many of you use Twitter but there's a campaign there at the moment to have everybody who is registered state that their timezone is 3.30 GMT and their destination Tehran . Reason is that it will slow Iranian security forces up in finding who has blogged from Tehran if everyone on Twitter says they live in Tehran . Its a 21st century I'm Sparticus ploy and it has limited use because they can check the ip address but it may save lives by slowing them down . Please could I ask anyone on Twitter to do this to help
 
Sounds a plan Solerina

This is a crucial point i think. Early part of this week will give inidications as to which way the tide is turning.

Not much to debate here really because apart from some far left bigots (seamus milne famously now) all spolitical shades must be hoping for change in this country. it wont be as radical as some assume but has to be an improvement....
 
Mousavi is still a conservative, though, let's not kid ourselves! He's been a staunch supporter of the regime for 30 years and is just as keen on the country's nuclear programme as Ahmedinajad. When he was Premier in the 1980s, Iran came close to all-out war with the USA during the final stages of the Iran-Iraq war.

All that the rioting will achieve is a little cosmetic readjustment of the current status quo, as the best hope for change comes from inside the government itself. Reformists' best hope for this lies within economics, a subject on which Adhmedinajad is woefully ignorant, and in which his ignorance seems to have succeeded, since the country's in terrible shape with unemployment at 17%, inflation at 25%. This is his great weakness and which, in the end, may prove his undoing.

But be careful what you wish for - not all of the country wanted the end to the Shah's regime, and what they got was a theocracy which imposed draconian repression on the many civil liberties which the Shah had allowed. Ahmedinajad enjoys strong support among the rural and urban poor, in spite of his wretched economic track record, and very much so with the Basiji (paramilitaries of some 12 million). Best to let internal wranglings work themselves out and, for once, keep our Western meddlings (however paved with good intentions, like the road to Hell) out of it.
 
To be fair krizon, Mousavi couldnt be anything other than a staunch supporter, otherwise he would not have been allowed to run. In many ways, the real voice is his wife
 
But that's what's wrong in Iran, Clivex. It's a show of a democratic process, but not a reality, since no-one who was a real dissenter survived Khomeini's disappearances and summary executions (for fake 'activities against Islam' charges) in the late 1970s/early 80s. So it looks as if Iranians can vote for change, but the only change will be in the name of the PM - not in any radical overhaul of the repressions still visited upon them. It won't be until those in power (and it's an awfully tangled skein of politics and religion) allow true dissent to be heard sincerely, without repression, and for candidates from those dissenting parties to stand for an honest election process, that 'democracy' as we know it will have landed in the country. As it is, it's like voting for apples - you can have a red one, a golden one, or a green one. But you can't have oranges or grapes - just apples.
 
Wonderful scenes yesterday. The momentum hasnt been lost

I think this could just be the start of real change now.
 
Well now they have been proven to be lying little shitbags, what "sanctions "will be next eh?

We will no doubt have the whole cultural and historical excuse for their self defence dragged up on here by the usual middle eastern "experts" but their weapons capabilities should be finished off before It's too late
 
Agree Harry on all points

I would like to see sanctions imposed that would bring the country to its knees but I think this will end up in an attack. Israel will do a fine job of course and given that Iran has already stated that it wants to wipe the jewish nation off the planet togther with the constant practical backing of terroism against the state, they have every right to smash these "facilities"

Should be reme,bered that the other states in the region would welcome that too. I
 
But we must not forget that if these lunatics launched a bomb it would obviously be America's fault as usual.
 
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