Irish handicappers in Uk races

M

montyracing2

At the Start
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I tend to analyse the more valuable races and I am starting to get a feeling that irish trained horses do seem to be increasingly ahead of the handicapper when running on the UK mainland.

Yesterday seems a case in point, Santo Padre winning very easily going away.

If I get the chance I'll go through my records and try and sort out this growing unease!

MR2
 
Would be odd if Irish trainers were going to the trouble and expense of sending over horses who they didn't think were ahead of the handicapper.
 
Unless some are thinking about the reverse of that and hoping to be ahead of the handicapper at a later date. :ninja:

It is after all, encouraged in the UK!
 
Gordon Elliott's place in the UK trainers table makes interesting reading - you'd struggle to tell he was training in Ireland looking at the stats ;)
 
Irish trainers are running in the UK for (a) better ground (b) sick of balloting and need to get in the top five in a race (c) smaller fields (d) sell their horses. Colm is now running horses in the UK due to (a) and (b) above. The downside is the prizemoney.

As for the handicapping point, it's only the case if you have a decently handicapped horse. Colm told he he entered a few ordinary handicappers and their ratings were circa 14lbs higher in the UK. So it's not all Irish horses that are well handicapped and need to make the distinction between those (a) well handicapped (cue AJ Martin) (b) natural improvers (c) exposed.
 
Needs to be a distinction made between flat and jumps here. On the flat, the Irish ORs are used in Britain. Over jumps, the BHA compile their own ORs for Irish racing that are used if/when an Irish horse runs in Britain.
 
I believe there is an agreement in place that Irish NH horses rated 140+ will race off their Irish marks when running in the UK. Might be wrong on that though!
 
trackside528 said:
I believe there is an agreement in place that Irish NH horses rated 140+ will race off their Irish marks when running in the UK. Might be wrong on that though!
Click to expand...
Those currently rated 140 and above are allocated marks by an Anglo-Irish panel, so there are no discrepancies.
 
I think it's irrelevant where the horse is trained. if a trainer has a well handicapped horse whether through vast improvement, sorting a problem or hiding the horse he/she are going to target a big race where ever it is.
 
Cantoris said:
Irish trainers are running in the UK for (a) better ground (b) sick of balloting and need to get in the top five in a race (c) smaller fields (d) sell their horses. Colm is now running horses in the UK due to (a) and (b) above. The downside is the prizemoney.

As for the handicapping point, it's only the case if you have a decently handicapped horse. Colm told he he entered a few ordinary handicappers and their ratings were circa 14lbs higher in the UK. So it's not all Irish horses that are well handicapped and need to make the distinction between those (a) well handicapped (cue AJ Martin) (b) natural improvers (c) exposed.
Click to expand...


Why are you looking for a top five placing in UK races?
 
Galileo said:
Why are you looking for a top five placing in UK races?
Click to expand...

You're right Gal, I meant a win in the UK which affords significant protection in the ballot system in Ireland as per below.

Hurdles​
Protection from balloting will operate in the following order (only
performances up to the time of entry will be taken into account):
2. Horses which have won a Hurdle race run under the Rules of any
Recognised Turf Authority and which do not have an official Hurdle
rating in Ireland.
3. Horses which have won a Hurdle race run under the Rules of any
Recognised Turf Authority and which have an official Hurdle rating in
Ireland, the highest rating affording the greatest protection.
4. Horses which have won a Flat race, an I.N.H. Flat race or a National Hunt
Flat race run under the Rules of any Recognised Turf Authority and which
were placed 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th in either of their last two completed
hurdle races run in Ireland.
5. Horses which have won an I.N.H. Flat race or a National Hunt Flat race
run under the Rules of any Recognised Turf Authority and which have
completed in less than three hurdle races run in Ireland.​
​
​

8. Horses which have won a Flat race run under the Rules of any Recognised
Turf Authorty on or subsequent to January 1​
​
st of the year previous to the
current year and which have completed in less than three hurdle races run
in Ireland.
9. Horses which have won a Flat race run under the Rules of any Recognised
Turf Authority and which have completed in less than three Hurdle races
run in Ireland.​

 
I actually thought you could be in the first five in the UK too and help the ballot but that's not the case, you have to win. But easier to win a five runner race than get in first five in 25 runner race!!
 
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