Kauto Star Or Denman

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  • Kauto Star

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  • Denman

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I backed Denman this year. At similar prices to last friday, I would back Kauto next time round. As far as I'm concerned Kauto did enough to prove that he has to be off form to be beaten by Denman. Both on form, Kauto wins.
 
Any other track, then i might consider Kauto Star.

Not now though. Kauto has a proven track record now of running below form at Cheltenham, and even if he didn't, i'm not sure i'd back anything against Denman at the moment (Perhaps Master Minded over the Ryanair distance, but that's another matter entirely).
 
"Not now though. Kauto has a proven track record now of running below form at Cheltenham,"


...................didn't know Stoute had run the Eclipse winner at Cheltenham?! :shy:
 
Despite being a confirmed Kauto Star fan, I would back Denman against him every time at Cheltenham. Kauto has run to more or less the same mark in this years Gold Cup, as he did int he last (imo, at least), and it's seems pretty clear to me that the track doesn't bring out the best in him.

Even on better ground, I doubt there would be much hope against an in-form Denman.
 
Both 8yo's, one's Irish bred and ones French bred. Denman's had 14 races for about 40 racing miles, Kauto's had getting on for 500 furlongs (depends where he fell in France) for about 61 miles, nearly 33% further. In truth, I'd expect Deman to prove the more sturdy with another year on his back, though am far from convinced the re-match will take place
 
Originally posted by Grasshopper@Mar 18 2008, 12:27 PM
Despite being a confirmed Kauto Star fan, I would back Denman against him every time at Cheltenham. Kauto has run to more or less the same mark in this years Gold Cup, as he did int he last (imo, at least), and it's seems pretty clear to me that the track doesn't bring out the best in him.
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On bare figures, yes. I had him on something like 175+ for last year having previously had him on something like 184 (don't have the book to hand). I reckon he ran to a similar mark this year having hit 185+ elsewhere.

However, he was by no means hard pressed to win last year in much the same way that Best Mate's Gold Cup ratings were below his best elsewhere and I do believe he was below par this year.

Harry Findlay himself said last week, a few days before the race, he'd be surprised if Kauto Star hadn't improved 7lbs from last year therefore Denman was up against it. However, that might have been a ploy to take the pressure off owning the second favourite.

I'm not convinced Kauto Star can't hit his top form at Cheltenham.
 
Denman for me . :P ..barring injury i think he will dominate ...and i dont see anything getting near him next season...He is an out @ out stayer who will gallop @ jump all day long .... :) @ that includes 2009 Gold Cup ,Kauto Star @ all
 
No, I don't think he is either, but he gets 26f a little better than Kauto Star, and plenty well enough to beat anything else that's likely to turn up.
 
Originally posted by granger@Mar 18 2008, 08:18 PM
Findlay claims he is a speed horse who would win a champion chase
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Findlays half right.

He's a speed horse because of his stamina. It is his ability to sustain and stay a testing trip, at a high cruising speed, without it showing up in jumping errors that makes him a speed horse. He did it in last years SAC where he comfortably eclipsed the best figure I held by any other horse (Florida Pearl) and he's done it again. Others picked away at the collateral form of his slower wins, and some even tried to develop the theory that he wouldn't stay (Nick Mordin). Anyone armed with a speed figure would know what he was capable of, and it was something that Kauto hadn't demonstrated over C&D.

The Kauto apologists who seem to have started a minor excuse industry of late, really needn't look no further than the fact he made jumping errors and hit a few when the pace was injected. Denman backers always foresaw this possibility and factored it into their decision, reasoning that Denman jumps straight, accurately, and quick. Kauto hadn't done so at the extra trip and at a sustained pace before.

As regards winning a Champion Chase? I think we can safely say that's bluster, and given who the owner and trainer of the current Champion Chaser is, I suspect there's no small amount of bravado and mischief being had. He didn't win a Sun Alliance hurdle lets not forget
 
The Kauto apologists who seem to have started a minor excuse industry of late, really needn't look no further than the fact he made jumping errors and hit a few when the pace was injected
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I simply cant buy this. Hes jumped round bloody Sandown with the Railway fences over 2m. Kempton is pretty sharp enough too, especially in the straight.

Hes not a perfect jumper of course (like Best Mate say) and i think like many of that ilk he will simply have days when its good and others when its less so
 
Originally posted by Warbler@Mar 18 2008, 08:49 PM


As regards winning a Champion Chase? I think we can safely say that's bluster, and given who the owner and trainer of the current Champion Chaser is, I suspect there's no small amount of bravado and mischief being had. He didn't win a Sun Alliance hurdle lets not forget
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He`d win an average renewal.
 
I think the main danger for Denman in the 2009 Gold Cup is Neptune Collonges.


For 2010 Master Minded could be the danger.
 
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