Life Is A Long Time - It Should Be.

Tout Seul

Tout Seul

Senior Jockey
Joined
May 2, 2003
Messages
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Good to see the evil b@stards that killed Anthony Walker get such long sentences, 17 and 23 years minimum, with the younger one getting the lesser sentence. The very fact that they had an icepick as their weapon of choice gives a pretty good insight into their nature. Well done that Judge!

The system of tariffs for different types of murder was highlighted by this case and as I understand it sentences can be great increased in the event that the victim is a child, is particularly vulnerable, is a police officer, or that the murder is motivated by race.My initial reaction was that this is absolutely right. But earlier today I heard some official (didn't catch intro) state that these tariffs were designed to be a greater deterrent to specific types of murder. This caused alarm bells to ring for a number of reasons- primarily that if the Government think that long sentences are a deterrent to murder shouldn't it give judges the power to set long sentences for all murders!
I then set to thinking that my eldest son (whom a number of you have met.) is appproximately the same age as Anthony, is similarly studious and mild mannered, but if those b@stards had killed him, say for speaking with a 'posh' accent, they would have almost certainly got much shorter sentences. To me that doesn't seem fair or proper.

Let me say before anyone attributes any views to me that I might not hold, I and my family for several generations have campaigned ( and sometimes physically fought) for equality in opportunity and treatment for all regardless of wealth or race.
 
I was surprised at how quickly the whole investigation, charges, trial and sentence came about. Have the the police and CPS actually learnt something from such disasters as the Steven Lawrence murder?

And just how much of a psychopath do you have to be to do that to someone? It's incomprehensible.
 
Totally agree with what has been said. Personally, I would have given both of them 23 years. Neither showed remorse and just because the younger one didn't wield the fatal blow, he supplied the axe and is equally guilty.
 
Absolutely, Dave.

Whilst we're at it, can anyone enlighten me as to how "life imprisonment" came to mean not life?? I find it exceptionally hard to believe that people considered letting out monsters like Myra Hindley & Rosemary West. The fact that they were female should mean absolutely nothing - if anyhting it should go to prove what abhorrent people they are.

I'm sorry but I also find it hard to believe that Maxine Carr was not only let out so early, but was also provided with a whole new identity despite the fact that she not only lied to hide her involvement in the murders but also tried to protect their murderer. I may be alone, but I also find it hard to believe that so much has been done to provide the Bulger murderers not only with a whole new identity & life, but an easy option never to have to work again. The way I see it is that if you are capable of such atrocious acts such as those they carried out on that poor child at the age of 12, what on earth will they be capable of as fully fledged adults?
 
Tout's comments brought back vividly my interview by a board who were examining potential magistrates several years ago (I think I was about 38). Their final question to me was:

"Did I think that sentencing for the murder of police officers should be more severe?"

I in fact answered 'No' - my view is that murder - whether of a police officer or some cokehead in a dark alley - is equally abhorrent and unacceptable and that the perpetrator should receive life imprisonment. The lives of the victims are equally valid.

I didn't get to be a magistrate..... :lol:
 
what i have found to be bery touching is the way Anthony Walkers mother has handle everything. To forgive such an unprovoked attack is beyond me and if it was my child I wouldnt be able to forgive. She is a very strong woman.
 
The family takes their Christian faith very sincerely, which is why she can find it in her heart to forgive the boys, even if they remain unrepentant now. They'll have plenty of time to consider their actions, and perhaps rescue themselves from their little world of mindless hate.

The good thing about being able to truly forgive someone, is that it releases you from poisoning your own life - and quite possibly the lives of others around you - with never-ending hatred and dwelling on the wrong that was done. In this noble woman's case, she can put aside the taint of these idiots, and remember her super son in the most loving way, not spending her own life as futilely as the killers will spend much of theirs.
 
I dont think the life of a smacked up junkie is equally valid to that of a police officer or innocent young child.
 
TS - Mrs Walker takes Christ's teachings very seriously, and tries to truly live as a Christian is taught to do, so if she wants to forgive her son's murderers in His name, who are we to say she shouldn't? After all, if Jesus could forgive his tormentors, she figures who is she not to forgive hers? It's not a matter of trivializing what they did, which was truly appallingly wicked, but of showing your own strength through letting go of any desire to hate in return, which would be by far the easiest option. I doubt I'd do it, if that had happened to my boy - or indeed anyone close to me. But if one's to be able to find a way out of the cycle of hatred, it would be a noble, intelligent action, and no doubt good for one's soul.
 
Good to see the evil b@stards that killed Anthony Walker get such long sentences
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One of them entered a not guilty plea meaning he protested his innocence. He might have been telling the truth. The only reason he is an "evil bastard" in your eyes is because the jury found him guilty. They could have easily found him not guilty. Do you believe the jury get it right all the time? What about those who have been convicted of a crime but later found to be innocent, do they get their "evil bastard" labels removed as well? If so, are you completely hating of these people solely on the decision arrived at by a jury? (Even though, in some instances, that decision is later overturned)

The very fact that they had an icepick as their weapon of choice gives a pretty good insight into their nature.
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So it's ok to be murdered by a gun, a knife or a metal bar?

Let me say before anyone attributes any views to me that I might not hold, I and my family for several generations have campaigned ( and sometimes physically fought) for equality in opportunity and treatment for all regardless of wealth or race.
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Just not equality for murder weapons, though.
 
Was that aimed at me, Walker? You do know that personal insults are not allowed on this forum and you could be banned for doing so? I ask one of the moderators to remove that personal insult towards me (unless Walker explains what he meant by it and it turns out not to be an insult).

You can't call someone an idiot just for disagreeing with someone's views, as I did with Tout Seul.
 
Phil, it is all very well criticising the trial by jury system but the alternative is less palatable. No, the jury doesn't always get it right. No system is flawless is any walk of life. The jury found him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I am afraid that that is good enough for me. Equally, there has been no notification of a plan to appeal (which would be the first thing I would do if I was innocent)

Your other comments smack of being deliberatley argumentative and don't warrant a response
 
Originally posted by Phil Waters@Dec 2 2005, 01:34 AM

One of them entered a not guilty plea meaning he protested his innocence. He might have been telling the truth.
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He pleaded innocent because he is a a lying little shitbag. He was the one went home to get the axe. What did he think the other would do, get an easyjet flight to the Alps and climb Mont Blanc?
 
Krizon, you have contributed much wisdom here over the years, but this is your best yet.

The good thing about being able to truly forgive someone, is that it releases you from poisoning your own life
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Exactly right.
 
Am I alone (Phil excepted maybe) in thinking that the 17yo's sentence (equals 80% of the actual murderer's) was excessive when compared to the norm. I'm not saying it wasn't just (I don't know enough about him), I'm saying that if his sentence was correct then almost all murderers are dealt with very leniently.
 
Originally posted by Shadow Leader@Dec 1 2005, 08:40 PM
Absolutely, Dave.

Whilst we're at it, can anyone enlighten me as to how "life imprisonment" came to mean not life?? I find it exceptionally hard to believe that people considered letting out monsters like Myra Hindley & Rosemary West. The fact that they were female should mean absolutely nothing - if anyhting it should go to prove what abhorrent people they are.
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Prison is supposed to help reform people. Maybe these young men can be rehabilitated and they can start to contribute to society after serving their time.

My views are best expressed by a letter I wrote to the Irish Times a few years ago, on the death of Myra Hindley.

Here it is in all its glory:
_____________________________________________________________

A chara,

I was extremely concerned to read An Irishman's Diary by Kevin Myers (November 20th). His attempt to draw a parallel between the cases of Myra Hindley and Brother Ambrose is curious at best and sensationalist at worst. Both have served time in prison for heinous crimes, but Myra Hindley served 36 years compared to the 3 years of Brother Ambrose.

Mr Myers seems to ignore the fact that a judicial/penal system should focus upon reforming people, as well as punishing them. Myra Hindley, formerly a criminal, became a victim herself, victim to a succession of Home Secretaries too fearful of public and tabloid opinion to grant her release.

In 1985 Lord Lane recommended that she should serve no more than 25 years, but subsequent Home Secretaries fixed her tariff first at 30 years and then at "whole life", meaning she would never be released. The only reason that this is allowed to happen in Britain is because politicians, who are naturally concerned with public opinion, can overrule judges with no such concerns on judicial matters.

Is this what we call a civilised society? I hope not. - Is mise,

BARRY MAHER, Brixton, London.
 
Prison mught be supposed to reform people, but does it really? I'm sorry but I am also firmly of the belief that those people with deep-rooted pyschological conditions are not ever going to be reformed or rehabilitated. By deep-rooted pyschological conditions I mean the likes of psychopaths, paedophiles & sexual predators - these conditions are in their genetic makeup & they are unable to realise that such a condition is wrong.

Myra Hindley was a psychopathic monster & despite all protestations that she had "changed", I very much doubt it. Psychopaths are very intelligent people & capable of putting on a good performance to convince people they are anything but monsters.
 
I'm sorry but I am also firmly of the belief that those people with deep-rooted pyschological conditions are not ever going to be reformed or rehabilitated.
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So how would you explain someone fitting your definition who was jailed, released and failed to re-offend?
 
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