Mod Withhold Cockpit Tape
- Thread starter Venusian
- Start date
BrianH
At the Start
And, unfortunately, in attempting to delete the duplicate I got rid of the wrong one. I was going to try to rewrite what you said but perhaps you'd like to post it again?
BrianH
At the Start
Venusian was commenting on the inability of the MOD to supply the cockpit tape from one of the US airforce planes that shot up British armoured cars, killing one Britisg soldier and wounding others. The reason given is that they are having difficulty in getting permission from the US government to do so.
He went on to make some satisfyingly juicy comments about the "special relationship" betwen our two great nations, and particularly that between our two leaders.
He went on to make some satisfyingly juicy comments about the "special relationship" betwen our two great nations, and particularly that between our two leaders.
An admirable precis, Brian.
You clearly chose correctly in your choice of thread deletion!
What gets me is the one-way nature of this relationship. What the f*ck are we doing letting the US dictate to us who shall see this tape? Why is this more important than justice for Hull's family?
You clearly chose correctly in your choice of thread deletion!
What gets me is the one-way nature of this relationship. What the f*ck are we doing letting the US dictate to us who shall see this tape? Why is this more important than justice for Hull's family?
I thought he'd managed to delete a black box recording, Songy!
I imagine we can kinda guess what's on it, though. It'll be a directive to fire on an enemy position ahead, followed by some stuff about being sure that it IS an enemy position, followed by 'yeah, clear', pause for firing, and then 'oh, sweet Jesus, I think we hit some Brits... '
Probably it continues along the same lines of trying to get an affirmation of what the hell they hit, the same way after the SS Vincennes shot down an Iran Air Airbus over the Gulf a few years ago, scattering civilian passengers all over the waters of the Gulf.
For a country obsessed with shooting, I'm amazed that so many American 'friendly fire' incidents occur. You would think that people proud to tell the difference between a wild turkey and a grouse at 500 yards could spot the difference between a civilian airliner and a fighter jet, or a British military vehicle and a clapped-out enemy Land Rover, particularly with all of their onboard recognition equipment. It's not like consulting little black silhouettes in an 'Enemy Recognition Handbook', for god's sake.
I imagine we can kinda guess what's on it, though. It'll be a directive to fire on an enemy position ahead, followed by some stuff about being sure that it IS an enemy position, followed by 'yeah, clear', pause for firing, and then 'oh, sweet Jesus, I think we hit some Brits... '
Probably it continues along the same lines of trying to get an affirmation of what the hell they hit, the same way after the SS Vincennes shot down an Iran Air Airbus over the Gulf a few years ago, scattering civilian passengers all over the waters of the Gulf.
For a country obsessed with shooting, I'm amazed that so many American 'friendly fire' incidents occur. You would think that people proud to tell the difference between a wild turkey and a grouse at 500 yards could spot the difference between a civilian airliner and a fighter jet, or a British military vehicle and a clapped-out enemy Land Rover, particularly with all of their onboard recognition equipment. It's not like consulting little black silhouettes in an 'Enemy Recognition Handbook', for god's sake.
It's widely known in Diplomatc circles that the so called 'Special Relationship' doesn't exist in reality. It tends to be the case that its almost exclusively a British phrase, which Amercian Presidents/ politicians acquiesce to use occasionally for the benefit of the travelling press corps and to allow the recipient a bit of reflected status as it tends to play well (on balance) with the UK electorate. In reality it rarely translates into anything of substance, which is why they are usually prepared to go along with pedalling the notion as they recognise it's futility.
This, let's not forget, is a President who only a few months ago was trying to rip up his countries signatory to Articles 3 and 4 of the Geneva Conventions, and has categorically refused to extend the protocols of war crimes to his military, effectively granting them a degree of immunity (safe from when the evidence is overwhelming and its expedient to go through a half hearted process when a wider agenda needs satisfying).
The Vincennes of course started a chain of events that ended in Lockerbie, yet the radar operator and gung ho Captain couldn't differentiate between the flight path of a commercial airliner on a steady ascent to a non military altitude, flying out of a civilian airport at a speed that was about 1,000 mph lower than a fighetr jet :blink: I believe he might have been decorated for his actions? There is a radio tape concerning an exchange between the Vincennes and another US ship in the area (I believe it was called the Staines) where the Captain of the latter is imploring the one of the former that the target was civilian and shouldn't be attacked. These things tend to get leaked rather than volunteered.
Mind you the Americans have had military nuclear accidents in the past that have been swept under the carpet, two of which involved European countries (well strictly speaking the location of one isn't in Europe, but is a protectorate of a European country). Far be it for me to tell you where the other one was? But perhaps Suny Bay might think twice before blindly leaping to the defence on every occasion
h34r:
The British aren't necessarily that forthcoming themselves. In the first case, military jets don't carry flight data recorders (black boxes) for security purposes, but the most obvious example of recent times that occurs to me is the 'signals log' for HMS Conqueror, which the MoD confessed had been 'routinely destroyed' when its significance started to become apparenth34r: :blink:
This, let's not forget, is a President who only a few months ago was trying to rip up his countries signatory to Articles 3 and 4 of the Geneva Conventions, and has categorically refused to extend the protocols of war crimes to his military, effectively granting them a degree of immunity (safe from when the evidence is overwhelming and its expedient to go through a half hearted process when a wider agenda needs satisfying).
The Vincennes of course started a chain of events that ended in Lockerbie, yet the radar operator and gung ho Captain couldn't differentiate between the flight path of a commercial airliner on a steady ascent to a non military altitude, flying out of a civilian airport at a speed that was about 1,000 mph lower than a fighetr jet :blink: I believe he might have been decorated for his actions? There is a radio tape concerning an exchange between the Vincennes and another US ship in the area (I believe it was called the Staines) where the Captain of the latter is imploring the one of the former that the target was civilian and shouldn't be attacked. These things tend to get leaked rather than volunteered.
Mind you the Americans have had military nuclear accidents in the past that have been swept under the carpet, two of which involved European countries (well strictly speaking the location of one isn't in Europe, but is a protectorate of a European country). Far be it for me to tell you where the other one was? But perhaps Suny Bay might think twice before blindly leaping to the defence on every occasion
h34r: The British aren't necessarily that forthcoming themselves. In the first case, military jets don't carry flight data recorders (black boxes) for security purposes, but the most obvious example of recent times that occurs to me is the 'signals log' for HMS Conqueror, which the MoD confessed had been 'routinely destroyed' when its significance started to become apparent
h34r: :blink:
simmo
Senior Jockey
Merchant shipping blowing up aircraft? These Americans are trigger happy.
On the subject - it's been happening for as long as they have had wars. The Americans haven't had a monopoly on it during that time either. Nor have they suddenly become the world's worst (best?) at it - we're just told about it a bit more routinely now and weaponry available now is rather more inclined towards finality than was previously the case.
:lol:
Damn the missing U
And here was me innocently trying to goad Suny into an explanation of the four nuclear bombs that fell on Spain. (alright they didn't detonate, not even I would try and sustain that one!!!). But they did cause some leakage and contamination as they broke up. So far as I know the four that were lost off Greenland, remain lost. In other words the bombs haven't been recovered and remain somewhere on the seabed slowly degrading and presumebly becoming increasingly unstable. Now that would give global warming a push
Ah ha it was Krizons mistake, oh that's alright then, I thought it was me who turned the Vincennes into a merchant ship
Damn the missing U
And here was me innocently trying to goad Suny into an explanation of the four nuclear bombs that fell on Spain. (alright they didn't detonate, not even I would try and sustain that one!!!). But they did cause some leakage and contamination as they broke up. So far as I know the four that were lost off Greenland, remain lost. In other words the bombs haven't been recovered and remain somewhere on the seabed slowly degrading and presumebly becoming increasingly unstable. Now that would give global warming a pushAh ha it was Krizons mistake, oh that's alright then, I thought it was me who turned the Vincennes into a merchant ship