Paul Nicholls

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Interesting to read some of his plans in the Racing Post today...

Kauto is going to Down Royal or Haydock...I thought he did not like Haydock!?!:confused:

Denman will be coming over to Leopardstown at Christmas (a clash with Notre Pere and Cooldine in the mud would be worth seeing)...

Celestial Wave staying over hurdles but Nicholls admitting it will be tough for him this year with the lines of Hurricane Fly and Solwith adding strength to the two mile division.
 
Just goes to show how lucky we are in the flat this year. Kauto Star will run probably 2 proper races (Down Royal being a pipe opener) and avoid his stablemate (Denman) at all costs until the Gold Cup. Masterminded will no doubt run in a conditions race, the Tingle Creek where nearly all will avoid him, and the QMCC. Yes, they may be around longer but it is more of the same (few races per season, avoid any worthwhile challengers).
 
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Celestial Wave staying over hurdles

That would be nice :( but think you mean Celestial Halo Gal.

I haven't heard a dickibird as to his health/fitness, but it would be nice if Mossbank was in the mix at Leopardstown at xmas as well. I shall be there cap in hand either way.
 
Just goes to show how lucky we are in the flat this year. Kauto Star will run probably 2 proper races (Down Royal being a pipe opener) and avoid his stablemate (Denman) at all costs until the Gold Cup. Masterminded will no doubt run in a conditions race, the Tingle Creek where nearly all will avoid him, and the QMCC. Yes, they may be around longer but it is more of the same (few races per season, avoid any worthwhile challengers).

Flattie horse-shit propaganda that won't wash.
 
How short Flattie memories seem to be now that you are communally drooling over Sea The Stars. :rolleyes:

Kauto Star is rising 10yo, and has 19 chase starts outside of novice company in 4 seasons racing. That includes his 06/07 season where he won six on the bounce, including a handicap.

In fact, last year was the first season over fences he hasn't contested a handicap chase - most likely because connections felt they had to campaign the horse differently after his troubles at the end of the 07/08 season. Connections were, of course, largely vindicated following a truncated campaign last season which led to three G1 victories. Kauto Star was aggressively campaigned during three full seasons, but needs something different now that he is entering the twighlight of his career. This horse has not been campaigned in the same way as Best mate was - far from it - and any suggestion that he has, is utterly erroneous. The only race he hasn't run in so far, which I would love to see, is the Racing Post Chase.

The Jim Nicholson is a G1 event, and Kauto Star will be readied to win it - not plod around in the hope of picking-up condition for the King George. The race is "proper" enough for me, and even if it only attracts six runners, at least all of them will be trying to win it, and not just acting as pace-makers for the likes of Notre Pere or Cooldine.

As for your definition of "two proper races", it is this kind of thoughtless, throwaway rubbish that I would expect from Lesley Graham, Alice Plunkett or any of the other idiotic Channel 4 "Sacrificed on the Festival Altar" doomsayers.

Denman has had well documented health problems, and they were the only thing that prevented him from going after a second Hennessy win under-top-weight last year. Naturally, with the horse looking more-or-less nursed back to something near his best last year, it's entirely reasonable for them to adopt a cautious approach with him initially. I still think Harry wants to really test this horse in another handicap though, and hopefully he will find a suitable race for him to do so.


Master Minded suffers from scaring the opposition shitless - hardly his fault. To be honest, I hope he does run in a handicap, but failing that, I'd expect him to fit either the Chandler or Game Spirit in between Sandown and Cheltenham. With there being no race for him at Aintree, connections will likely head to Punchestown once more......so we can probably expect him to run in double the races you predict.


Gal, it would be nice to see Kauto Star and Denman run against each other prior to Cheltenham, but wouldn't you want to keep them apart if you trained them?

If it was a case of Kauto Star or Denman ducking out i.e. missing obvious races in an effort to avoid running into each other, than I would take a harsher view. But given there are adequate races in the Jumps Programme for both, I'm personally happy enough to wait until the Gold Cup for the clash - especially so considering that (given acceptable ground) it is probably the fairest race on the calendar for them to meet in.
 
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That would be nice :( but think you mean Celestial Halo Gal.

I haven't heard a dickibird as to his health/fitness, but it would be nice if Mossbank was in the mix at Leopardstown at xmas as well. I shall be there cap in hand either way.

Mossbank- reported in the Post a couple of weeks ago to be back in training and in fine fettle.
 
As for your definition of "two proper races", it is this kind of thoughtless, throwaway rubbish that I would expect from Lesley Graham, Alice Plunkett or any of the other idiotic Channel 4 "Sacrificed on the Festival Altar" doomsayers.

First of all, it wasn't thoughtless, and it's an opinion, not 'rubbish'. I'd be very surprised if someone such as yourself really considered that race at Downroyal as a proper grade 1. It was the equivalent of a conditions race.

It is much too easy to avoid other top horses in your chosen sphere. Why is it that in the flat season horses in many cases have no alternative to take each other on, yet in the more 'sporting' National Hunt, horses avoid each other in many cases until that week in March?

Master Minded had 4 races last season yet was only 6. The problem here this season is the forming of a new race to allow him to start off his season in an uncompetitive conditions race, when there are many other possibilities such as the Haldon Gold Cup. This encourages even less competition than there currently is.

Look at the two mile hurdlers. There are so many races for them between the end of November and Christmas that is almost difficult to bump into each other. This, again, has to wait until March. Is this right, and good for National Hunt racing?

It's irrelevant who trains Kauto Star and Denman - they should face each other 2/3 times a year, let everyone see who the best really is and racing would be all the better for it. At the moment, all we can say is who is better one day in March, and unfortunately, both have had problems in this race the past two years, which has meant avoiding each other throughout the season has come back to haunt NH.

Now, before you lose your rag, I do very much enjoy NH and will most likely look forward to it when it comes around again, and it's very enjoyable to attend, and a reason to move back to the UK! However, it has serious issues, and could in fact learn a thing or two from the flat.
 
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No, they didn't (one bad case of ducking, I agree).

Look at Raven's Pass and Henry. Their rivalry was like a narrative of the flat season last year and was fantastic to watch. Can you imagine them continually ducking each other, and easily winning their respective races, and meeting in the QE2 for the first time? And, imagine that instead of both being extensively campaigned, they raced in half the number of races they eventually did, one of which is essentially a conditions race?

Both codes have a lot to learn from each other; obvious ones (for me) are I think flat racing can learn a lot from how NH present and engages itself with it's followers, and NH can take an awful lot from the pattern in flat racing, and the clashes this produces; the NH 'pattern' clearly (again, to me) does not work as we do not see enough clashes between the top horses.
 
However, it has serious issues, and could in fact learn a thing or two from the flat.

Nurse? Nurse!!??

Hamm, you refer to Flat racing, and how "in many cases they have no alternative but to take each other on".

If that is the case, can you please explain why there were three pacemakers in a field of nine for the Irish Champion Stakes? With two no-hopers also running, there were effectively four who went to post with a chance - a de-facto 4 runner race, for one of the richest Flat prizes in Europe?

And what of the Juddmonte? A four-runner, two-horse race?

What of the nine rivals STS faced in the Eclipse? Where were they on Sunday? My apologies, I forgot all about Set Sail - beaten 30+ lengths at both Sandown and Leopardstown.

What happened to all those other Flat mutts who had nowhere else to run other than in the three events mentioned above?

We can all use selective arguments to prop-up a theory, no?


Could the Jumps Pattern be improved? Yes it could. There have been too many instances of decent handicaps (Chandler being the most recent) being 'upgraded' to wfa events, which is to the overall detriment of the game. So I do have a certain sympathy for the position which suggests there are too many prizes which don't 'exercise' the top horses sufficently.

But the suggestion that National Hunt racing needs to look to the Flat for lessons on how to improve, is a joke, quite frankly.
 
Gal - I'm sure Nicholls is as disappointed as anyone that the Champion Hurdle will now be as one sided as the Champion Chase and last seasons Gold Cup :)
 
No, they didn't (one bad case of ducking, I agree).

Look at Raven's Pass and Henry. Their rivalry was like a narrative of the flat season last year and was fantastic to watch. Can you imagine them continually ducking each other, and easily winning their respective races, and meeting in the QE2 for the first time? And, imagine that instead of both being extensively campaigned, they raced in half the number of races they eventually did, one of which is essentially a conditions race?

Both codes have a lot to learn from each other; obvious ones (for me) are I think flat racing can learn a lot from how NH present and engages itself with it's followers, and NH can take an awful lot from the pattern in flat racing, and the clashes this produces; the NH 'pattern' clearly (again, to me) does not work as we do not see enough clashes between the top horses.

For Henry and Ravens Pass, read Brave Inca, Hardy Eustace, Macs Joy and Harchibald.

You simply can't look at a single season in isolation, and say "the game is knacked".
 
Both codes have their good points and their bad points. A lot depends on rivalries. Sheikh Mo v Coolmore v the rest means that you normally have at least two very good horses in the G1 flat races. Now that should be McManus v Nicholls v the Irish (mainly Mullins) v the rest over jumps but unfortunately McManus cannot produce enough top quality horses and Mullins tends to stick in his own country. And then you always have one of the Championship races which looks weak. Remember Moscow V Azerty V Well Chief at the same time Best Mate was winning the Gold Cup pretty easily. So it comes and goes. I've often watched the flat and wonder where all the excitement has gone. half the reason people like Sea The Stars is because Coolmore and Goldolphin aren't involved.
 
McManus has top quality horses Cantoris - he just sends them to the wrong trainers. In fact he runs one tommorow afternoon, a potential Cheltenham Festival horse ;)
 
McManus has top quality horses Cantoris - he just sends them to the wrong trainers. In fact he runs one tommorow afternoon, a potential Cheltenham Festival horse ;)

You might say he sends his horses to the wrong trainers, I just think he buys the wrong horses. I have a similar view of Sheikh Mo. For the amount of money and the number of horses they have, they simply don't get the returns. Some blame the trainers which is prob right but the buyers have a lot to do with it too.
 
For those who rate STS so highly wouldn't you like to see him take top weight in a handicap to prove his greatness? ;)

Yes!! I'd love a sponsor to put up a £1m first prize for a 110+ handicap. That might be very interesting. If I ever win the Euromillions multiple rollover I might do it myself...
 
You might say he sends his horses to the wrong trainers, I just think he buys the wrong horses.QUOTE]

Good point Cantoris. Jonjo was quoted last year as saying he had a stable full of good ground horses. Not much use for the NH season proper.
 
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