Rain forecast and he's still watering

Desert Orchid

Desert Orchid

Senior Jockey
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
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At Cheltenham on Friday the forecast going is good (going stick 7.4) yet that clown Claisse is still watering despite all the rain being forecast.

Only a couple of weeks back we had, according to the BBC weather bulletin, in one day "more rain than the entire contents of Loch Ness" (and Loch Ness as any primary school kid can tell you is the most voluminous lake in the country, holding more water than all the lakes of England and Wales combined) so we' haven't really had a dry spell.

Credit is obviously due to the management of the track over the years that it can still prodice good ground so soon after the deluge but watering again when heavy rain is forecast, to me, borders on reckless.

I do feel sorry for connections of horses that prefer fast ground. They never seem to get a proper shot at decent money with clerks of the course hell bent on softening it.

Rant over. Time to calm down and think positive thoughts...
 
The other side of the coin is Chepstow didn't water because heavy rain was forecast and of course it didn't materialise. Ground was good/firm and half the field withdrawn.
 
We haven't had much of the rain that was forecasted in the last three weeks, our near neighbours Ludlow, Hereford, Chepstow have also been the same.The course is in fantastic condition with a good grass covering. Raining now but not heavy. Tomorrow is forecast as mostly dry.
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Picture taken October 15th by Ben, Head Groundsman.

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Exactly. Looking at those photos reminded me how I felt when I got a sneaky peep at a Playboy magazine photo when I was 14.
 
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Desert Orchid said:
At Cheltenham on Friday the forecast going is good (going stick 7.4) yet that clown Claisse is still watering despite all the rain being forecast.

Only a couple of weeks back we had, according to the BBC weather bulletin, in one day "more rain than the entire contents of Loch Ness" (and Loch Ness as any primary school kid can tell you is the most voluminous lake in the country, holding more water than all the lakes of England and Wales combined) so we' haven't really had a dry spell.

Credit is obviously due to the management of the track over the years that it can still prodice good ground so soon after the deluge but watering again when heavy rain is forecast, to me, borders on reckless.

I do feel sorry for connections of horses that prefer fast ground. They never seem to get a proper shot at decent money with clerks of the course hell bent on softening it.

Rant over. Time to calm down and think positive thoughts...
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I’m astonished you’re surprised by this. I won’t comment my thoughts about cheltenham’s watering habits [emoji23][emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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trudij said:
I’m astonished you’re surprised by this. I won’t comment my thoughts about cheltenham’s watering habits [emoji23][emoji23]
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I just thought that with all the rain there's been even he wouldn't water.

I'm all for watering to promote grass growth but the summer would have sorted that anyway and this weekend the ground should have been as close to virgin as Mary.

As for the non-runners when faster ground prevailed elsewhere, I don't have a problem with that. Those non-runners will get their chances in due course. Good ground horses deserve to have their conditions now and again even if it means smaller fields. Looking back at the Ascot results on Saturday, half of the fields could have been withdrawn because of the ground without affecting the results as they were unable to show anywhere near their true ability. Maybe if more connections had insisted on withdrawing their horses, or even threatened to do so in the week leading up to the meeting, they would have considered using the jumps track on which the ground was reportedly nowhere near as bad.
 
Diamond Geezer said:
There's a virtual preview of the meeting tomorrow night, Simon Claisse is on the panel. Why don't you ask him why he's been watering ?
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I would only end up more frustrated as I wouldn't trust him to give an honest answer. More chance of an honest answer from Bojo the Bozo.
 
Maxbet said:
Would have been G/F had he not watered DO...The Devil you DO...The Devil you DO...n't
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We don't know that certain, though, Maxbet. The rain might have produced perfect good ground.

And why should horses who act best on fast ground be denied opportunities to run at top tracks and pick up some reasonable prize money? The likes of Brain Power ends up being sent to America to get his ground because he's denied opportunities here by over-zealous clerks hell-bent on pandering to the majority who want softer ground.

We get soft ground pretty much from early November through to the end of March when the big money is being contested. The vast majority of horses are catered for then with no shortage of opportunities.

I don't care if fast ground means smaller fields, to be honest. Sometimes very heavy ground results in small fields too. That's probably as it should be as so few horses genuinely act in extremes.

I just want to see fast ground horses get a fair shot at some prize money for their owners.
 
One thing you haven't commented on is the risk to the horse. I lost a good horse at Haydock because they described the ground as Good when really it was G/Firm. Its nearly November and any owner that wants to run his horses on Good or better has had the past 4 months to do so. I personally think on this occasion Classie has done a super job and the course looks magnificent.
 
frontrunner said:
One thing you haven't commented on is the risk to the horse. I lost a good horse at Haydock because they described the ground as Good when really it was G/Firm.
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Surely there has to be an element of responsibility on the trainer and/or his representative(s) to check the condition of the track before sending a horse out to race on it. I can't imagine what it must be like to lose a horse but going reports are notoriously misleading at many tracks so surely trainers have to satisfy themselves that it's safe for any particular horse.

frontrunner said:
Its nearly November and any owner that wants to run his horses on Good or better has had the past 4 months to do so.
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But not really in races of decent quality. They're very few and far between during the summer although I accept Perth tends to attract a decent level for decent money but nine out ten runners at Perth are incurring significant expense and logistics just to be there. If memory serves, even the good summer handicaps at Market Rasen this year were on good-to-soft.


frontrunner said:
the course looks magnificent.
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Of course it looks magnificent. It hasn't been raced on since March. If it looked anything less than magnificent you'd really have to be concerned about his competence.
 
Desert Orchid said:
The ground is now good, good to soft in places after today's rain.

I'll say it again. Claisse is a clown.
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Over the years, I have been on the ISIS-wing of people slating Claisse’s mis-direction vis-a-vis the ground at Cheltenham, but I have to say in his defence, he’s been getting it more right than wrong this last 2-3 seasons......and it’s hard to go to town on any Clerk that produces G/G-S which is about bang where you’d want it at this time of the year.

In this case, DO, I think you’re being unduly harsh, I have to say.
 
Grasshopper said:
In this case, DO, I think you’re being unduly harsh, I have to say.
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I know I'm being harsh (not sure about 'unduly' so) but it seems every time a meeting comes up there is some discussion about the watering policy.

I have no issue with watering to promote grass growth or even to take dangerous jar out of very firm ground (the going stick goes up to 15, remember, and we seldom see higher than 8 at NH courses even in the summer) but he often waters when there's plenty of rain forecast as was the case this week.

If not as much rain falls as forecast so be it, he can always water lightly the night before to help but to do so when every forecast is saying 'rain' smacks of arrogance, as though he knows the majority of trainers won't mind an extra bit of give.

Maybe some of the big guns, especially the local ones, are encouraging him to water so as not to have fast ground but I think it's unfair. Some of the most brilliant festival performances seen in recent years have happened when the ground has dried out naturally, when good-actioned horses have the chance to really stretch out on it.
 
I’d posit that some of the greatest Festival-ground abberations of recent times were when Claisse failed to water; allowing quick ground to prevail all week, and rendering an entire season’s form-book utterly worthless.

Quick ground horses have their options through the summer these days; it’s not like they are unduly penalised. Given the vast majority of NH horses want some give, I’ll stand for ground that is equitable (which G/G-S undoubtedly is) for Cheltenham’s Showcase meeting, than let it ride and rob many ‘winter’ horses of a natural starting-point. It’s not a meeting I want decimated by NRs due to the ground being too quick; no matter that I have an absolutely appalling record historically, over the two days.

If any pressure is being applied by yards big or small, I think it’s fair enough. Rather that, than have a series of 4-runner fields composed of horses who would usually be at Perth or Rasen.
 
Grasshopper said:
I’d posit that some of the greatest Festival-ground abberations of recent times were when Claisse failed to water; allowing quick ground to prevail all week, and rendering an entire season’s form-book utterly worthless.
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I would suggest this supports my case. Those good-ground horses were probably disadvantaged through the winter.

Grasshopper said:
Quick ground horses have their options through the summer these days; it’s not like they are unduly penalised. Given the vast majority of NH horses want some give, I’ll stand for ground that is equitable (which G/G-S undoubtedly is) for Cheltenham’s Showcase meeting, than let it ride and rob many ‘winter’ horses of a natural starting-point. It’s not a meeting I want decimated by NRs due to the ground being too quick; no matter that I have an absolutely appalling record historically, over the two days.
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A lot of the summer courses are watering. As far as I know there are only one or two tracks that don't have a watering system nowadays and with climate change we're seeing more heavy summer rain. The few existing opportunities for good-ground horses are diminishing. Leaving this weekend's meeting alone would have seen the ground no worse than 'good' because it did rain as forecast and wouldn't really have disadvantaged any horse any more than on 'good' ground during a festival.

Grasshopper said:
If any pressure is being applied by yards big or small, I think it’s fair enough. Rather that, than have a series of 4-runner fields composed of horses who would usually be at Perth or Rasen.
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The way the forecast was shaping up, I don't think the general make-up of the fields would be any different. A few of this weekend's races only have a handful of runners anyway as is often the case in the non-handicaps at this time of year.
 
I don’t ncessarily buy the theory that horses are ‘disadvantaged’ by naturally slower/wetter ground. Some don’t go on it - that’s it. However, I do concede that if ‘natural ground’ is to apply equally, then watering should probably be considered an ‘unnatural’ adjustment.

For me, it comes down to this. If 90% of NH horses in training need it softer, then I’m an advocate of producing ground conducive to the highest percentage of runners, and trainers of quick-ground horses can either make hay during the summer, or dry their eyes.

The most important thing to me as a punter is that we get the biggest possible number of horses to post in each and every race. If that requires late-Autumn watering, I’ll stand for it, tbh.
 
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