Raven's Pass Retired..

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.. according to the BBC.

Disappointing decision, I really thought that one of New Approach or Raven's pass would have been kept on for a 4yo career and targeted at the Dubai World Cup (at least).
 
One point occurs to me - it seems a long time since a Sheikh M /Princess H horse of such ability was not transferred to Godolphin for their 4 year old career . Considering their recent very moderate record , the disaster of Literato for example, perhaps it was thought too much of a risk whilst leaving the horse with Gosden might look like a failure of confidence in Godolphin ?
 
It's not as if Bin Suroor has proven incapable of winning Gp1's though, and I can't believe that there can't have been an excuse for leaving him with Gosden capable of being conjured up.

I actually felt sure they'd leave him in training given that New Approach has been retired. Not only that but when you look at the number of 3yo's who've been his opposition this year who've also been retired (Henrythenavigator, Zarkava, I presume Montamare has gone too?) plus the older horses such as Duke of Maramalde, and possibly SoF and Youmzain the cupboard looks bare. In addition to that, we might also have the possibility that we've got a very poor bunch of 2yo's with nothing really capturing the imagination as a 3yo prospect yet. At 10F's on decent ground, Dubai, the PoW, Eclipse and Juddmonte might have been is for the taking? and whose to say he might not have had a shot at the Arc as a mature 4yo. Whats left? Tartan Bearer? Curtain Call? Frozen Fire? Casual Conquest? or is there a forgotten horse still knocking around? Ibn Khaldun?
 
Extremely disappointing news esp as he didn't really get the chance to stamp his authority this season due to being wrongly campaigned until late in the season. As Warbler implies, it's a short-sighted decision in respect of his stallion fee/future as he might well have cleaned up next season. He will also now be competing in a sense with NA as a first-season sire, which seems daft to me, even if one stands in Ireland and one here. He's going to take 1m/1m2 prospects away from NA isn't he? - how far do their pedigrees differ and is it enough that they won't be competing for mares?

Let's hope Ibn Khaldun comes back
 
Headstrong said:
As Warbler implies, it's a short-sighted decision in respect of his stallion fee/future as he might well have cleaned up next season.
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How much of a difference, in terms of his stallion prospects and likely fee, would it really make were he to "mop up" weak 10 furlong events next year?

I'm not claiming to know exactly, but I doubt it would make all that much to be honest.
 
trackside528 said:
How much of a difference, in terms of his stallion prospects and likely fee, would it really make were he to "mop up" weak 10 furlong events next year?

I'm not claiming to know exactly, but I doubt it would make all that much to be honest.
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I know even less, but logically I would have thought a horse's race record is only relevant in terms of attracting higher fees for his first couple of crops. Once his progeny race if they are no good the stallions record racing in Group 1's will not influence the stud fees.

I would have thought given a number of indifferent seasons now, and Sheikh Mo's well publicised spat with Coolmore and subsequent , Godolphin are desperate to start producing foals that can get his operation back on the map, and to this end one imagines this lies behind the shipping of Raven's Pass off to stud.
 
Ravens Pass

I still can not believe he lost the Craven.

since then I am surprised with his last 3 performances, I thought he was a lost cause after so many defeats but in the end he ended as one of the best horses Ihave seen this season, I rate his QEII in 130, nice horse.



About New Aproach
even more dissapointing he was retired, ater the Champion think eh could have won the Arc and seeing him so settled in the Champion he could have been toip class next season ridden by the italian.
 
sunybay said:
Ravens Pass

I still can not believe he lost the Craven.

since then I am surprised with his last 3 performances, I thought he was a lost cause after so many defeats but in the end he ended as one of the best horses Ihave seen this season, I rate his QEII in 130, nice horse.
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Though I have thrown my hands up and admitted I was wrong to doubt the limitations of RP's stamina (Lady Shads can testify to that!), Gosden deserves a considerable amount of credit for his handling of the horse.

He was very free in both the Craven and in the Guineas (admittedly he was poorly drawn) and I still don't think he would have stayed 10 furlongs in the spring. However, he improved with each run and eventually bridged the gap. I accept that this could be, and most probably was to some degree, a result of the horse maturing through the year, but Gosden nevertheless deserves a great deal of credit for his handling of the horse.
 
Gosden fumbled his way through the season with the horse and his handling of him has been far from impressive. Credit to the horse for showing how good he is, and to Gosden for getting him to the Breeders in such good shape having been on the go since April, but the tactics he's had emplyoyed on the horse prior to the QEII left plenty to be desired.
 
trackside528 said:
How much of a difference, in terms of his stallion prospects and likely fee, would it really make were he to "mop up" weak 10 furlong events next year?

I'm not claiming to know exactly, but I doubt it would make all that much to be honest.
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In the current climate maybe not any, but why risk him being beaten?

Shame about the decision, but not a great surprise.
 
I can't say much about the tactics, David, as I wasn't at all sure a more agressive ride would prove effective prior to the Sussex!

I am more referring to getting him to settle though to be honest and for the consistent improvement shown by the horse throughout the season, culminating in the Breeder's Cup. To say he "fumbled his way through the season" is a touch unfair IMO.
 
G-G said:
In the current climate maybe not any, but why risk him being beaten?
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My point exactly.

Any guesses on what Raven's Pass and New Approach will stand for?

Ill go with New Approach at EUR35,000 and Raven's Pass at EUR40,000.
 
Remember the quotes straight after the Guineas? Didn't Gosden say they'd run him in the Jersey and then the July Cup. Hardly the route to the Breeders Cup Classic. I'd stand by my assertion though am happy to acknowledge it was some ultimately successful fumbling.
 
trackside528 said:
My point exactly.

Any guesses on what Raven's Pass and New Approach will stand for?

Ill go with New Approach at EUR35,000 and Raven's Pass at EUR40,000.
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About right I would agree but wonder if Mr and Mrs SM will worry about quality of mares or quantity and drop them slightly if quantity wins out? Not renowned for having limited book of mares.
 
Interesting that he's going to Kildangan. Coolmore wouldn't have thought for a second about standing him anywhere other than the States.
 
I think it was Sheikh Mohammed and not Gosden the one who decided that the horse was running in the BC Classic.

About the tactics, mabe in the french race, but in the other ones I think he was beaten on merit at the time.
 
Whether he was beaten on merit or not in the Sussex isn't the issue, though it's hard to argue either way given results before and after that race, but I still think allowing your big rival first run when you yourself choose patient tactics in a slowly-run race are not the smartest.
 
davidjohnson said:
Whether he was beaten on merit or not in the Sussex isn't the issue, though it's hard to argue either way given results before and after that race, but I still think allowing your big rival first run when you yourself choose patient tactics in a slowly-run race are not the smartest.
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Agreed, David. I remember reading after the race that connections had considered making the running, but opted not to for fear of getting in a duel with the Ballydoyle pacemaker, so they certainly wern't afraid to at least consider a more agressive ride (admittedly that means nought if you don't implement the idea!)

The Sussex was a wholly unsatisfactory affair anyway, largely due to the farcical pacemaker, who struggled to set a a modest gallop, which was against both HTN and RP. It's ironic, therefore, that the bare form represents the most accurate assesment of the difference between Henrythenavigator and Raven's Pass at the top of their game; that is, virtually nothing.
 
If you ignore the 2000 Guineas, the difference between Henry and RP in the other 4 races show an almost linear improvement by RP over time.
 
True of course, Gareth. I just happen to think Henrythenavigator didn't run up to his earlier efforts in the QEII.
 
Galileo said:
Really surprising. Darley certainly retiring plenty of their 3 year olds nowadays.
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As someone remarked elsewhere they might just be desperate to get some new stallion/breeding blood in since their established stallions and/or mares don't seem to be producing the goods at tiptop level to compete with the other mob!
 
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