Ruby's Ride

P

Pawan

At the Start
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
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22
I'd just returned home, switched the TV on to watch the last half of the race, thought it was a wind up :suspect: what possessed him? :what:
 
I'm a great admirer of Ruby, the best jockey since John Francome in my opinion but why did he not look up? shrug:: imagine Hamilton driving his car in the same fashion...it could have ended up pretty nasty.
 
he put his head down and was in full flight but if you look at the way stratford has that final fence and water jump you wil notice they are not to far apart.


i am not trying to say it was not all ruby's doing but even the clerk of the course has come out and said "I do think it might have been an accident waiting to happen so we will go away and think about it"

i am a unhappy punter also as i backed the horse.
 
I didn't see the ride but I've read the report on the Sporting Life. For me the biggest joke has to be how Nicholls is "reportedly furious" and says the fence is in the wrong position. Well, forgive me for thinking that senior jockeys in particular have brains, as well as eyes in their heads, to make sure that they look at where they are going and work out what is the right and wrong course to take! It's ridiculous to blame the track, all blame should be squarely put on Ruby.

Similarly, I found it amusing to read the comments from Fakenham's clerk of the course the other day who said that whilst they would look at the course, "with all due respect, jockeys should know how many circuits they are supposed to be riding", or a very similar wording. C'mon, we all know he was dying to say "with all due respect, you'd expect even a jockey to be able to count to three..."! It's really not hard; I ride on a circular gallops and I've never forgotten how many circuits I am doing on a particular horse/day!
 
This "fence in the wrong position" excuse is total scrotum :rolleyes: how come no other jockey done it. He had his head down and not once did he look up until he came to the water jump :D yer gorra laugh haven't yer? :(
 
Even more amazing given he had ridden a winner on the chase course earlier in the evening. In both races Ruby had ridden on the wide outside, presumably because of ground more suitable for his horse as there had been heavy rain for an hour before the first race, and probably why he was still there albeit with head down !Lucky there was a gap in the barriers placed before the water jump for the horse to jink left and squeeze through too.

Clerk of the course stated the fences in the final straight had been placed like they are now in the interest of health and safety althought they would look at it again. Not ideal is it a water jump to ride round before the winning post although PN has gone over the top somewhat.
 
There may be two more reasons why Nicholls has every right to be furious - one being that he apparently warned Ruby before the race about the water jump being 'in the way'; and the other that he soon has both his jockeys banned for a couple of weeks simultaneously!

I'm sure when these things happen it's because they've been travelling for hours on little sleep and almost no food, and low blood sugar means they're just not firing on all cylinders and the mind switches off - a bit like 'nodding off at the wheel' [which I did once, bloody terrifying it was too]

Given most jockeys' regimes and lifestyles esp the constant travelling, I'm surprised this kind of thing is so rare tbh.
Which doesn't make it any less infuriating for all concerned!
 
I see that there has been the usual kneejerk reaction from certain quarters, led in this case by John Francome, for jockeys to have the summer off. Well hang on just a second, what is there to stop any jockey from taking a holiday wen they want to, particularly at this time of the year when it is quiet? No-one is making them ride all summer. I can't really buy the argument that the journeyman jockeys can't afford to take time off - if there was no racing for the two months Francome advocates they wouldn't be getting paid then, either! Good to see a voice of reason at the bottom of the article; well said Brownie, you tell 'em!!!

Apart from anything else, it seems daft to enforce a compulsory break on all jockeys. For God's sake, they're adults, and if they can't work out for themselves when they are knackered, run down and need a rest they shouldn't be allowed out in public by themselves!

Taken from the RP :

JOHN FRANCOME believes jump jockeys may be losing concentration and making errors because they are riding at a time of the year when they should be on holiday with their feet up by a swimming pool or playing golf.

The seven-time champion, who retired from the saddle before the introduction of summer jumping, said: “I've not spoken to either Ruby Walsh or Sam Thomas about their mistakes and the reasons why, but my view has always been that a jockey's job is no different from any other in that if you do it for too long without a break, errors are going to creep in.”

He added: “Tiredness can cause problems. That's why they have signs on motorways advising drivers to take a rest, and why there are safety guards on machinery in factories. After a busy season, jockeys needtime off.”

Francome advocates the reintroduction of the once traditional summer break for jump racing, which stretched from the end of May into August. He believes this would not only be of advantage to jockeys, but to the sport in general.

“Put it this way,” he said, “what's the fun in biscuits if there are always biscuits to be found in the tin?”

Francome's view was supported to a certain extent by recently retired jockey Tony Dobbin.

He said: “There is a degree of truth inwhat John says. But jumping in the summer has been part of the calendar for some years, and for even longer in Ireland, and jockeys have become accustomed to it. The fact we had two instances of errors last week was nothing more than coincidence.”

He added: “Ruby Walsh is a legend of a jockey, and what happened only goes to prove he is human like the rest of us.”

Colin Brown, who won 17 races on Desert Orchid, said that while leading jockeys such as Walsh and Thomas can afford to take a fortnight off at this time of the year, he did not believe that fatigue was a defence in their cases.

“I doubt if either of them are required to ride out in the mornings at this time of the season, so they are getting plenty of rest,” he added. “There's no excuse for what they did, and they should be setting a better example to the youngsters.”
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I think there's a great deal to be said for taking time off - and Blockley makes the point here that it's the TRAVELLING which is increasingly knackering, not just the hours [and in Ruby's case this involves regular commuting from Ireland]. There was far less traffic on the roads when Colin Brown was riding, and far fewer NH fixtures.

RP piece reporting Francome

No one has suggested NH jocks take the summer off! And sadly, grown ups can't always be expected to do what's best for them, otherwise they wouldn't drink, smoke, take coke, sell inside info, and do all the other things we do and don't know about. Sportsmen in particular will push themselves beyond the limit of what's sensible

I think jocks should only be allowed to ride 6 days a week, or at the least 13 days a fortnight - flat or jumps. Something has to be done since the current regime isn't fair on owners and trainers, let alone jocks themselves. The human frame isn't constructed for *continuous* all-out effort - nor is the mind.
 
Why don't they just ask Thomas and Walsh why they made these mistakes. They both held their hands up, no excuse for it. But would be interested to hear their view on this.

I think there is some merit in jockeys having to take some madatory time off. In Ireland there is not jumps racing seven days a week during the summer, more like three or four days a week and some of those are mixed cards. UK jumps racing seems to be on every day all year round. I'm not sure I'd agree that just because they are adults they know when they are knackered. I know colleagues who have been told to take a day off as they keep working too hard!! It doesnt happen often as most of us take our annual holidays each year as we are entitled to them from our employer. Jockeys are self employed and like most self employed people, they hate taking holidays as time is money!! It is certainly an idea that should be considered.
 
Lets put this into perspective shall we? I am a support worker, I get paid a pittance for being an accountant, nurse, cleaner, bodyguard, hairdresser, chef, courier, etc, etc,

some of my colleagues have ended up in hospital through attacks from service users, you need eyes in the back of your head with certain service users, Friday, I worked without a break from 7:45am until 5pm, drank a cuppa standing up and ate my meals while washing up :rolleyes:

I have many days like this, I am 61 yrs of age, arthritic and asthmatic, I get on with it, no time to be moaning of being overworked, its my job, I knew what I was letting myself in for.

A jump jockey rides for a few minutes in each race, at most, six in a day, they're in as much danger as I am, maybe a lot less shrug:: they can fall off, when you weigh up what can happen to me, these jockeys have a wonderful trade, I'd swop with any of them. :)
 
I've already posted the article quoting Francome above, HS (edited to say that the article you've posted quotes Blockley) - and in it he is said to want a break to racing from the end of May to August. So yes, it has been suggested that NH jocks are forced to take around three months off in the summer! It's not even as though there is NH racing 7 days a week throughout the summer anyway, any more than there is AW racing 7 days a week throughout the winter (even though it feels like there is!!!)

Look, jockeys are adults. Why should they need treating like five year olds any more than anyone else in full time employment? Frankly, if they are not capable of knowing themselves when they are tired and need a holiday then as I said before, they shouldn't be allowed out in public without a responsible adult accompanying them. An enforced break will do no-one any good and seems fairly pointless to me when you are dealing with alleged grown up adults.

No-one is disputing that they must get tired as they travel a lot and ride often, but really, at their age, they don't need nursemaiding, any more than any of the rest of us in the working world, do they?
 
The end of May til the beginning of August is 2 months. I personally think two months without jump racing in the high summer would be a great boon, tho I'd choose July and August. it would still leave plenty of time either side for horses which prefer firmer going - and no horse should be asked to jump on Firm, even if it thinks it likes it, imo!

As for your other point, we all know they had to remove Dr Pritchard form the WR because jocks kept pressuring him to pass them when they were concussed, and otherwise injured LOL - and he did!
 
If tiredness is an issue for jockeys, it raises another question - if they make mistakes in a finish, what mistakes do they make elsewhere on the track that don't get spotted. And what impact do those mistakes have on the safety of others. One of the best initiatives introduced in the last while in Ireland was the hydration testing. Not sure if UK are doing it too. It proved that jockeys, while adults, are not capable of keeping themselves hydrated as their job revolves around weight control. Their dehydration was potentially putting other jockeys in danger. Safety in our sport is paramount and if they need their hands held, so be it, I won't lose sleep over that. If tiredness is causing a problem, then lets find out and try and figure out what can be done about it.
 
Ah, but the article didn't say beginning of August, it said "into" August - which could be any date up until the 31st!!!!!!
 
Originally posted by Cantoris@May 25 2008, 04:48 PM
If tiredness is an issue for jockeys, it raises another question - if they make mistakes in a finish, what mistakes do they make elsewhere on the track that don't get spotted. And what impact do those mistakes have on the safety of others. One of the best initiatives introduced in the last while in Ireland was the hydration testing. Not sure if UK are doing it too. It proved that jockeys, while adults, are not capable of keeping themselves hydrated as their job revolves around weight control. Their dehydration was potentially putting other jockeys in danger. Safety in our sport is paramount and if they need their hands held, so be it, I won't lose sleep over that. If tiredness is causing a problem, then lets find out and try and figure out what can be done about it.
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Listen don't worry too much about jockeys being tired etc....tiredness has nothing to do with Sam Thomas's mistake or Ruby Walshs. There are other "journey men" jockeys out there that have a far tougher and demanding schedule.
 
Cantoris, it's more the fact that in holding the hands of the jockeys if they're unable to look after themselves, sweeping changes would have to be made that would affect the whole industry. Now lets look at the bigger picture - we'd be back to all NH yards laying off their staff every summer for two months, as well as the staff at the NH tracks that race during the summer, and so on. What about courses like Worcester and Newton Abbot who almost exclusively race during the summer? Worcester is more or less unable to race throughout the winter due to the proximity of the river and its habit of bursting its banks during prolonged periods of rainfall.
 
That I agree with fully, Gal. As Brownie points out, neither Walsh nor Thomas will be riding out daily; nor are they going to have to drive themselves to the races. In fact, they lead the life of riley compared to probably 90% of NH jockeys!!
 
I would have thought that any ban or restriction on when courses can or can't hold fixtures would be illegal in this post-OFT-investigation era?
 
Shadow, I've never advoacted abandoning summer jumps racing at any stage. I'm all for summer jumps racing, it is enjoyable and suits the lower end horses and those that like fast ground. And it's an enjoyable day or evening out.

I am for making racing as safe as possible. Gal, I'm not worried about any one particular jockey. For years, everyone denied there was a problem with dehydration. For years industry people said there wasn't a problem. And for years they were wrong. I have no idea if tiredness is a problem or not but anyone who is self employed will tell you they slog their guts out more than if they were employed by someone as that fee goes into their pocket rather than their employers pocket. This leads to problems. And if a potential problem has been identified by Francome, should it not be investigated and discussed with the jocks and if something sensible can be introduced then that will be good for everyone.
 
Listen Cantoris, I know I dont need to tell you this....but visit The Hole In The Wall in Galway, Cunningham's and Tiger Lilys in Kildare, Foxes in Cashel etc etc and night's before racing you will see jockeys pissed before riding the next day. Its a badge of honour for most of them...

So instead of concentrating on helping jockeys, it could easily be said they could help themselves.
 
I'm still not sure that anything enforced is the answer though.

I'm employed, but I've spent months and months (before the enforced lay-off, obviously!) riding out every morning before driving to a racecourse (no chauffeurs for me!) to do a full days work before driving home afterwards. Try getting into your car at Wincanton at 1830, knowing you've the best part of a two hour drive in front of you and you haven't seen home since 0630, and it's all going to happen again tomorrow! Or, even better, climbing into your car at 2145 after the last race at Kempton, knowing you've got to keep your eyes open on the motorway for another 50 mins, again, not having seen home since 0630 that morning. So I have some idea of how much it does knacker you out - it's actually the driving that kills me. I've even driven to Bangor or Chester for an evening meet straight from the yard having ridden two lots first thing! Yes, I ended up knackered, but when things got really bad I'd take a day or two off, fully recognising that I'd make myself ill if I carried on.
 
Originally posted by Galileo@May 25 2008, 04:10 PM
Listen Cantoris, I know I dont need to tell you this....but visit The Hole In The Wall in Galway, Cunningham's and Tiger Lilys in Kildare, Foxes in Cashel etc etc and night's before racing you will see jockeys pissed before riding the next day. Its a badge of honour for most of them...

So instead of concentrating on helping jockeys, it could easily be said they could help themselves.
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Don't need to go there to see it, I see it four nights a week in 21 Club in Cheltenham where one Gold Cup winning jockey was in lah lah land at 2am before riding at Uttoxeter the next day. And no-one thought of breath testing him?? I wonder why......the industry trying to protect itself again. Can't have any of our top jocks getting caught the day after winning a big race. What would they say in the media. Rubbish.

I am all for drug testing, breath testing, dehydration testing, tiredness testing and any other testing that makes the sport safer. And if it needs enforcement then lets get on and enforce it and stop debating it. You must remember, the guy who drinks and drives shouldn't need his hand held either but the only way to stop him is education and enforcement. It keeps the roads safer. And glad to hear you took that day off Shadow, I think everyone would have been knackered after that.
 
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