Shooting In Us University
- Thread starter Harbinger
- Start date
Gareth! You young pretender, you! This is the sort of headline reserved for Merlin! I was appalled by the BBC tonight - Natash Kaplinsky virtually slavering over the word 'horror' (horror x 3, horrifying x 1) and then some other woman joined her and her co-presenter going over text messages from students inside the building! Good grief - are we so desperate for instant gratification we have to have everyone from ten miles away (and bearing in mind this is a huge campus of some 25,000 18+ y.o.'s) desperate for their five seconds of fame (five minutes is waaay too long, Andy W) on television?
Once upon a time, we might've had a fairly solemn announcement, promising the facts to follow. Not any more - we have to have instant video phone footage of cops running around looking horrendously overweight and confused. Instant replays. Instant phone messages from people who may have heard a shot. Instant texts from more people who heard shots. Then, really disgracefully, and with no regard at all for the real people this affects - the parents, relatives and close friends of those in the buildings - descriptions of 'bloody bodies'. For goodness' sake, let's not have our national broadcaster present this as if it's just one step away from a video game!
Oh, and instant non-information from Matt Frei in Washington, who helpfully researched the fact that this is nothing unusual in America, except that 'it's the second university shooting since 1969, the other 19 in the past 10 years have been in schools' - standby for a ratings index! As usual, and as Frei probably wearily predicted, there'll be outrage, grief, gnashing of teeth and rending of garments by assorted talking heads, but in the end, the right to bear arms will not be dented one little bit. And the prospect of perhaps another 19 mass shootings in the next 10 years beckons.
Once upon a time, we might've had a fairly solemn announcement, promising the facts to follow. Not any more - we have to have instant video phone footage of cops running around looking horrendously overweight and confused. Instant replays. Instant phone messages from people who may have heard a shot. Instant texts from more people who heard shots. Then, really disgracefully, and with no regard at all for the real people this affects - the parents, relatives and close friends of those in the buildings - descriptions of 'bloody bodies'. For goodness' sake, let's not have our national broadcaster present this as if it's just one step away from a video game!
Oh, and instant non-information from Matt Frei in Washington, who helpfully researched the fact that this is nothing unusual in America, except that 'it's the second university shooting since 1969, the other 19 in the past 10 years have been in schools' - standby for a ratings index! As usual, and as Frei probably wearily predicted, there'll be outrage, grief, gnashing of teeth and rending of garments by assorted talking heads, but in the end, the right to bear arms will not be dented one little bit. And the prospect of perhaps another 19 mass shootings in the next 10 years beckons.
From yahoo.com
Death toll rises to 31 in Va. shooting
By SUE LINDSEY, Associated Press Writer 1 minute ago
BLACKSBURG, Va. - A gunman opened fire in a dorm and classroom at Virginia Tech on Monday, killing at least 30 people in the deadliest campus massacre in U.S. history. The gunman was killed, but it was unclear if he was shot by police or took his own life.
"Today the university was struck with a tragedy that we consider of monumental proportions," said Virginia Tech president Charles Steger. "The university is shocked and indeed horrified."
The name of the gunman was not immediately released, and investigators offered no motive for the attack. It was not immediately known if the gunman was a student.
FBI spokesman Richard Kolko in Washington said there was no immediate evidence to suggest it was a terrorist attack, "but all avenues will be explored."
The shootings spread panic and confusion on campus, with witnesses reporting students jumping out the windows of a classroom building to escape the gunfire. SWAT team members with helmets, flak jackets and assault rifles swarmed over the campus. Students and faculty members carried out some of the wounded themselves, without waiting for ambulances to arrive.
The bloodbath took place at opposite sides of the 2,600-acre campus, beginning at about 7:15 a.m. at West Ambler Johnston, a coed dormitory that houses 895 people, and continuing at least two hours later at Norris Hall, an engineering building about a half-mile away, authorities said.
Police said they were still investigating the shooting at the dorm when they got word of gunfire at the classroom building.
After the first shots were fired, students were warned to stay indoors and away from the windows. But some students said they thought the precautions had been lifted by the time the second burst of gunfire was heard, and some bitterly questioned why the gunman was able to strike a second time, two hours after the bloodshed began.
Some of the dead were students. One student was killed in the dorm, and the others were killed in the classroom, Virginia Tech Police Chief W.R. Flinchum.
Up until Monday, the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history was a rampage that took place in 1966 at the University of Texas at Austin, where Charles Whitman climbed the clock tower and opened fire with a rifle from the 28th-floor observation deck. He killed 16 people before he was shot to death by police.
The massacre Monday took place almost eight years to the day after the Columbine High bloodbath near Littleton, Colo. On April 20, 1999, two teenagers killed 12 fellow students and a teacher before taking their own lives.
The deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history was in Killeen, Texas, in 1991, when George Hennard drove his pickup into a Luby's Cafeteria and shot 23 people to death, then himself.
Founded in 1872, Virginia Tech is nestled in the Blue Ridge Mountains of southwestern Virginia, about 160 miles west of Richmond. With more than 25,000 full-time students, it has the state's largest full-time student population. The school is best known for its engineering school and its powerhouse Hokies football team.
The rampage took place on a brisk spring day, with snow flurries swirling around the campus, which is centered around the Drill Field, a grassy field where military cadets — who now represent a fraction of the student body — once practiced. The dorm and the classroom building are on opposites sides of the Drill Field.
A gasp could be heard at a campus news conference when the police chief said at least 20 people had been killed. Previously, only one person was thought to have been killed.
Investigators from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives began marking and recovering the large number of shell casings and will trace the weapon used, authorities said.
A White House spokesman said
President Bush was horrified by the rampage and offered his prayers to the victims and the people of Virginia.
"The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed," spokeswoman Dana Perino said
After the shootings, all entrances to the campus were closed, and classes were canceled through Tuesday. The university set up a meeting place for families to reunite with their children. It also made counselors available and planned an assembly for Tuesday at the basketball arena.
After the shooting began, students were told to stay inside away from the windows.
Aimee Kanode, a freshman from Martinsville, said the shooting happened on the fourth floor of West Ambler Johnston dormitory, one floor above her room. Kanode's resident assistant knocked on her door about 8 a.m. to notify students to stay put.
"They had us under lockdown," Kanode said. "They temporarily lifted the lockdown, the gunman shot again."
"We're all locked in our dorms surfing the Internet trying to figure out what's going on," Kanode said.
Maurice Hiller, 21, a mechanical engineering student from Richmond, saw police and SWAT team members with guns drawn going toward Norris Hall. "This is something just totally beyond anybody's expectations," he said.
Police said there had been bomb threats on campus over the past two weeks by authorities but said they have not determined a link to the shootings.
It was second time in less than a year that the campus was closed because of a shooting.
Last August, the opening day of classes was canceled and the campus closed when an escaped jail inmate allegedly killed a hospital guard off campus and fled to the Tech area. A sheriff's deputy involved in the manhunt was killed on a trail just off campus. The accused gunman, William Morva, faces capital murder charges.
Death toll rises to 31 in Va. shooting
By SUE LINDSEY, Associated Press Writer 1 minute ago
BLACKSBURG, Va. - A gunman opened fire in a dorm and classroom at Virginia Tech on Monday, killing at least 30 people in the deadliest campus massacre in U.S. history. The gunman was killed, but it was unclear if he was shot by police or took his own life.
"Today the university was struck with a tragedy that we consider of monumental proportions," said Virginia Tech president Charles Steger. "The university is shocked and indeed horrified."
The name of the gunman was not immediately released, and investigators offered no motive for the attack. It was not immediately known if the gunman was a student.
FBI spokesman Richard Kolko in Washington said there was no immediate evidence to suggest it was a terrorist attack, "but all avenues will be explored."
The shootings spread panic and confusion on campus, with witnesses reporting students jumping out the windows of a classroom building to escape the gunfire. SWAT team members with helmets, flak jackets and assault rifles swarmed over the campus. Students and faculty members carried out some of the wounded themselves, without waiting for ambulances to arrive.
The bloodbath took place at opposite sides of the 2,600-acre campus, beginning at about 7:15 a.m. at West Ambler Johnston, a coed dormitory that houses 895 people, and continuing at least two hours later at Norris Hall, an engineering building about a half-mile away, authorities said.
Police said they were still investigating the shooting at the dorm when they got word of gunfire at the classroom building.
After the first shots were fired, students were warned to stay indoors and away from the windows. But some students said they thought the precautions had been lifted by the time the second burst of gunfire was heard, and some bitterly questioned why the gunman was able to strike a second time, two hours after the bloodshed began.
Some of the dead were students. One student was killed in the dorm, and the others were killed in the classroom, Virginia Tech Police Chief W.R. Flinchum.
Up until Monday, the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history was a rampage that took place in 1966 at the University of Texas at Austin, where Charles Whitman climbed the clock tower and opened fire with a rifle from the 28th-floor observation deck. He killed 16 people before he was shot to death by police.
The massacre Monday took place almost eight years to the day after the Columbine High bloodbath near Littleton, Colo. On April 20, 1999, two teenagers killed 12 fellow students and a teacher before taking their own lives.
The deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history was in Killeen, Texas, in 1991, when George Hennard drove his pickup into a Luby's Cafeteria and shot 23 people to death, then himself.
Founded in 1872, Virginia Tech is nestled in the Blue Ridge Mountains of southwestern Virginia, about 160 miles west of Richmond. With more than 25,000 full-time students, it has the state's largest full-time student population. The school is best known for its engineering school and its powerhouse Hokies football team.
The rampage took place on a brisk spring day, with snow flurries swirling around the campus, which is centered around the Drill Field, a grassy field where military cadets — who now represent a fraction of the student body — once practiced. The dorm and the classroom building are on opposites sides of the Drill Field.
A gasp could be heard at a campus news conference when the police chief said at least 20 people had been killed. Previously, only one person was thought to have been killed.
Investigators from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives began marking and recovering the large number of shell casings and will trace the weapon used, authorities said.
A White House spokesman said
President Bush was horrified by the rampage and offered his prayers to the victims and the people of Virginia.
"The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed," spokeswoman Dana Perino said
After the shootings, all entrances to the campus were closed, and classes were canceled through Tuesday. The university set up a meeting place for families to reunite with their children. It also made counselors available and planned an assembly for Tuesday at the basketball arena.
After the shooting began, students were told to stay inside away from the windows.
Aimee Kanode, a freshman from Martinsville, said the shooting happened on the fourth floor of West Ambler Johnston dormitory, one floor above her room. Kanode's resident assistant knocked on her door about 8 a.m. to notify students to stay put.
"They had us under lockdown," Kanode said. "They temporarily lifted the lockdown, the gunman shot again."
"We're all locked in our dorms surfing the Internet trying to figure out what's going on," Kanode said.
Maurice Hiller, 21, a mechanical engineering student from Richmond, saw police and SWAT team members with guns drawn going toward Norris Hall. "This is something just totally beyond anybody's expectations," he said.
Police said there had been bomb threats on campus over the past two weeks by authorities but said they have not determined a link to the shootings.
It was second time in less than a year that the campus was closed because of a shooting.
Last August, the opening day of classes was canceled and the campus closed when an escaped jail inmate allegedly killed a hospital guard off campus and fled to the Tech area. A sheriff's deputy involved in the manhunt was killed on a trail just off campus. The accused gunman, William Morva, faces capital murder charges.
Sorry, that's exactly what I thought - the two women looked like a couple of Madame Defarge's sisterhood of knitters by the guillotine, picking out the names of those sending in their messages. There was no gravitas at all to the presentation, just an eager 'look what we've got' as if they were collecting points.
Pee, the NRA's position will be dismally the same, I'm sure: "guns don't kill people - people kill people" crapola and all the usual mealy-mouthed rubbish from the usual politicos. Deepest sympathy, day of mourning, never forget, all a complete sham at NRA and sympathiser levels. Heaven forfend that the Americans should ever get real about weapons - when you see the types of weapons available for sale to the public, you can't believe it. The right to bear arms will be roundly defended as part of the liberty of life in the USA. Except that there's no liberty, or life, for thousands of people every year as a result of their laws. We were so right to tighten up our gun laws here, and we're so lucky not to have a constitution giving us the right to have them.
Pee, the NRA's position will be dismally the same, I'm sure: "guns don't kill people - people kill people" crapola and all the usual mealy-mouthed rubbish from the usual politicos. Deepest sympathy, day of mourning, never forget, all a complete sham at NRA and sympathiser levels. Heaven forfend that the Americans should ever get real about weapons - when you see the types of weapons available for sale to the public, you can't believe it. The right to bear arms will be roundly defended as part of the liberty of life in the USA. Except that there's no liberty, or life, for thousands of people every year as a result of their laws. We were so right to tighten up our gun laws here, and we're so lucky not to have a constitution giving us the right to have them.
Muttley
At the Start
Oh, how I wish the media would make some effort to get the facts before they start quoting numbers, etc ...
The first I heard of this was when I went on the Timesonline site and this is what I found:
The first I heard of this was when I went on the Timesonline site and this is what I found:
News reader says it's still possible to buy guns in Virginia without any background checks and has the laxest gun control in the US - sorry, but while the President assumes a mournful tone and says the usual platitudes, the country's gun ownership system is out of control, like so many of its patrons.
The gun lobby is quoted as being 'one of the most powerful in America', so everyone should expect plenty more of these shootings, along with those massacres in shopping malls, supermarkets, banks, etc. which regularly contribute to America's woeful record of mass shooting sprees, because the President will continue to uphold the right of the country's population to 'bear arms'.
We have to remember that America is a country deeply in love with the folklore of the gun, from the Colt to the Winchester to the tommy gun beloved of its equally folklorish gangsters, to today's handguns. So many films, vid games and songs old and new glorify guns, and they have a sport shooting (i.e. hunting) lobby bar none.
The gun lobby is quoted as being 'one of the most powerful in America', so everyone should expect plenty more of these shootings, along with those massacres in shopping malls, supermarkets, banks, etc. which regularly contribute to America's woeful record of mass shooting sprees, because the President will continue to uphold the right of the country's population to 'bear arms'.
We have to remember that America is a country deeply in love with the folklore of the gun, from the Colt to the Winchester to the tommy gun beloved of its equally folklorish gangsters, to today's handguns. So many films, vid games and songs old and new glorify guns, and they have a sport shooting (i.e. hunting) lobby bar none.
Grand Armee
At the Start
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You are right Krizon. In 1996/97 after the Port Arthur massacre, where Martin Bryant killed over 30 people and injured another 17 in the space of 24 hours, Australia became "gun safe" and banned basic ownership of them.
It was the best and most sensible move ever. Gun crimes decreased dramatically, its once in a blue moon you hear about crimes involving a gun. People are now required to be tested before being given a license (which is now considered a privilege) and required to attend regular safety training days with their nominated club. It takes up to 12 months here to become a fully fledged licensed shooter. The clubs when teaching their new shooters always have 2 safety officers behind the new shooter.
Being forced to comply with the law and being made to attend safety awareness made me a good shooter. Nothing angers me more than the 5th amendment "The right to bear arms." Iits NO ONE'S right to bear arms and to shoot someone. It is an absolute 100% PRIVILEGE to be the owner of a gun.
If they brought in gun restriction and control, along with constant testing and safety procedures, what we saw happen today may never have happened.
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
Sad situation, and here’s their opportunity to try and clamp down on the sale of firearms I thought the Hamish incident and the Columbine incident, may have started something but obviously not……. 
h34r:
h34r:Grand Armee
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Unsure, but I do know at the buy back scheme which the government set up in 1997, that nearly 500,000 weapons were surrendered. These weapons were then destroyed. yes there are still people out there with guns whom never bothered with handing them in, however its believed those that still have them are located in isolated areas where a gun is needed.
Of course people will always be able to access weapons on the black market. However in saying that the crime rates by use of a gun dropped by nearly 60%.
The hardest guns to be licensed for in Australia are handguns. These require nearly 2 years of training before the person is deemed suitable and capable of using them.
Damage caused by a shotgun is just devastating. The end result leaves the object or animal shattered into tiny little pieces.
What type of gun did this idiot use today on his rampage?
K
Kathy
Guest
My sister lives in Virginia, but comes home in about 3 weeks time for good after about 9 years living in the States. Will be interesting to hear from her what is being said in the US about these latest shootings.
Harbinger
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There's a pretty good Wikipedia article on the interpretation of the Second Amendment at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendm...econd_Amendment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendm...econd_Amendment
Grand Armee
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Apparently he was a Chinese citizen on a student exchange VISA for college.
All over a girl
You are right PDJ - the Yanks and NRA will go on and on about their rights, under the Constitution, and the Secondment Amendment. :brows:
All over a girl
You are right PDJ - the Yanks and NRA will go on and on about their rights, under the Constitution, and the Secondment Amendment. :brows:
Not sure if it was an NRA rep, but I was listening to someone spouting on this morning that guns are not allowed on campus, and if they were, some properly trained student or staff member could have put an end to it before it reached the horrific proportions it has. It is not an unreasonable arguement in this particular case.
Powerscourt
At the Start
The gun debate is really redundant.
Guns don't kill people. People kill people. OJ Simpson did not need a gun to sever his wife's head.
The vast majority of gun owners abide by the law. There are a few in the minority who don't. Unfortunately this guy yesterday broke the law and hence the terrible loss of life.
Guns don't kill people. People kill people. OJ Simpson did not need a gun to sever his wife's head.
The vast majority of gun owners abide by the law. There are a few in the minority who don't. Unfortunately this guy yesterday broke the law and hence the terrible loss of life.
Bar the Bull
At the Start
I would like to see somebody massacre 32 people without a gun. Well, I wouldn't, but I am sure you catch my drift.
America is a culture in which violence is seen as a solution to problems. The abundant ownership and use of guns is a contributory factor.
America is a culture in which violence is seen as a solution to problems. The abundant ownership and use of guns is a contributory factor.
It can be argued it is the major factor. Melendez, I see your point but I disagree that it is a reasonable argument. Banning guns completely would mean that the incident could not happen in the first place. Arming more people is not an ideal solution by any means. In fact, if it was a trained student who had taken the attacker down, does that not encourage vigilanteeism?
Powerscourt
At the Start
A suicide car bomber could do the same. Should we ban cars then too ?
I have owned a gun for the best part of 25 years now. I am a law abiding person. I keep the gun for protection at my home for myself and my family. I would have no problem using it if my life or my family were threatened in any way.
I don't see where I should have to give up my gun just beacuse some law breaker went on a killing spree. If that was the case the only people left with guns would be the people who have no respect for the law in the first place.