Telling It As It Is.

SlimChance, being old news doesn't make it any less relevant, as to evolve or die, that's wrong, I can walk into any Irish bookie shop here, place my bet without question, obviously within limits, FOBT's have never been installed in any bookie shop here in Ireland and only recently, legislation was passed, banning them from ever being installed, yet our bookies are opening new shops and expanding their existing shops, on an ongoing basis, there has been no evolvement here in their core business, barring lotto and cartoon racing, which is to offer odds on sporting events, for people to back on, yet they haven't died, but as I said are expanding.

Having recently been in the UK for business purposes, in seven different cities, both South and North, and seen for myself the sad state of the Industry, not to mention the state of the UK High Street, with an over proliferation of bookies shops, that are nothing more than mini casinos, with the SINGLE cashier/teller now reduced to being nothing more than a mirror image, of their counterpart, that sits in the CHANGE HERE booth of many a seafront amusement arcade.

Putting aside the obvious effects that these FOBT's are having on your average punter and his/her opportunitities to place a bet, the effects that they are having on Society as a whole, are even worse, yet nobody seems to care about, what, let's face it, are people at the lower end of the Socio-Economic scale, who are the main players of these machines, initially probably playing them, in the hope of winning and lifting themselves out of a situation where they might be in debt, yet only to find themselves falling deeper in the hole and ending up with an addiction also.

People come onto internet forums and rant about being restricted and/or having their accounts closed, or not being able to place a shop bet, yet when you ask them have they written to their MP or local councillor about these machines, they don't reply or say no they haven't, like I said, I have no trouble getting my bets on, but it doesn't mean that as long as "I'm alright Jack", people should not highlight the fact, that bookies are hiding behind licences that are issued to them, to be just that, a bookie and not no risk, guaranteed profits, one person staffed, mini casinos, who want to phase out their bet taking where an element of risk that they might lose is involved, all covered up and knowingly encouraged, by the TV racing channels gravy trainers and the so called "Racing Press", what price that any of their kids might go to bed hungry tonight, any price you like, what price that up and down the lenght of the UK, some poor unfortunate kids, who has a parent addicted to these machines, will go to bed hungry tonight, no offers.

Any gambling to excess can cause problems, but these machines are in a different league when it comes to causing problems and nothing is being done it seems to halt the misery they are proven to have caused and are causing daily, that to me is a crying shame.
 
Detest FOBT's and bookmakers not laying bets, but it's hard to draw a direct correlation between the two, is it not?
Bet 365, for instance, don't have a High Street presence, and wasn't there was a hullabaloo recently about UK bookmakers knocking back punters in Australia, where you'd imagine much the same applies?
 
detest these machines, and totally agree they are bad news for everyone apart from bookies. they are also being used as a vehicle to whip the bha slowly into getting a bum deal where horseracing is concerned. the real problem is that bookies are relying less and less on horses as their cash cow and they letting the bha know this in no uncertain terms.

just to go off piste... folk on here and other mediums often moan about bookies not taking decent bets anymore, so as a tenner or twenty man, how much a we talking here ? hundreds or thousands, or more that you lads are getting knocked back on ?
 
Reet Hard, regarding Bet365, they are Britains biggest online bookie, in the year to 31/3/2013, they had turnover of 20 billion, up from 12.5 billion the year before, seeing as how they are the biggest restricters/closers of accounts for winning or clued up horse punters, that increase or most of it can be put down to sports mugs and those addicted to their online versions of FOBT's. With pre-tax profits of nearly 200 million, they are well ahead of the others and as a majority family owned business, they are happy without the additional headache of a High Street presence, I would imagine.

The correlation between FOBT's and bookies not taking bets, is as plain as day, in 2008, UK bookies held 4% of UK High Street floorspace, today it's 9%, so if they have more than doubled their presence, why are they not taking bets or only taking bets from those they know to be horse backing mugs, there are not enough mugs around to justify opening shops just for them, it's because each new shop opened, allows them to install 4 FOBT's, cut the number of staff required to run the shop, as only one staff member is required for supervision duties and then sit back and rake in guaranteed no risk profits from each machine, without the headache of employing extra staff to take horseracing bets, that are not risk free.

Have a look at any of their published Annual Accounts, where they give details of their future financial plans, Ladbrokes for example, in their published plans not too long ago, said they were opening 90 plus new shops in the year ahead (2013) and in another section, laid out their planned staff reduction numbers. Look at how they have done away with BOG for telephone placed bets but retain Bog if you back online, why would you need telephone staff when you are not interested in taking horseracing bets going forward, steer your punter online to avail of BOG, kills two birds with the one stone, staff cuts and easier to seperate the chaff(mugs) from the wheat(shrewdies) and manage accounts online, with the added bonus that you can keep an eye on them through the use of cookies, any business opening 90 plus shops, surely would be hiring staff as opposed to boasting about the massive savings they are going to make by cutting staff while massively expanding.

Ireland and the UK punter are basically cut from the same cloth, we love our racing and we bet, there wouldn't be a lot of difference between amount bet per head I'd imagine between both of our average punters, allowing for our population of say 4.5 million compared to the UK of say 63 million, if bookies here in Ireland are opening shops on an ongoing basis, employing 2 to 3 staff members at all times in a shop and more at busy times, while not having any FOBT's and still making massive profits, nobody can tell me that bookies in the UK would not make massive profits from horseracing and general sports betting alone in their shops, they will and let's not forget that up to 6 years ago they did since their inception, then came the Golden Goose in the form of an FOBT, which is solely and exclusively responsible for the UK bookie refusing/restricting the ordinary punter, FFS imagine walking into a bookies and being told you can have 10 on at SP and not the 20 you wanted on at 6/1 or whatever, or even worse being refused a bet completely, actually you don't have to imagine, it's happening daily.

The two lads in the video may not be the most elequent of people when putting forward the truth, but seeing as they are like the rest of us, basically ordinary punters, they should be applauded for doing what none of the onscreen gravy trainers or Racing Post gravy hacks will do. As for both of our supposed industry regulators in Ireland and the UK, don't get me started, strokes being pulled in maidens daily in order to get a mark, non runners taking out by trainers with a "self cert" where the reduced number of runners will mean that the bookies have less to pay out under each way terms, blatent non triers, the Tote sold off cheaply to that muppet Done, with returns reduced to ripoff levels.

Anyway lads, I've got to get back to studying for tomorrow, LOL, you know it makes sense, basically we're all mugs at the end of the day.

Happy and Lucky Punting to you all.
 
The subject of FOBT's, and their impact on betting/society has already been covered in these pages. My attitude now is the same as it was then; if idiots want to shoot-out their baked-bean money, then let them - they don't need saved.

I've been in a High St bookies maybe a ten times in the last ten years. They are no longer relevant insofar as my gambling is concerned, and haven't been in a long time.

They also tend to be populated by the kind of mug/sap you describe.......something I've been keen to disassociate myself from for years. Like Markus on his begging-bowl thread, you seem to think that all gamblers are the same; bumbling, inveterate, degenerates, with a compulsion to bet....the event being largely immaterial, value meaning nothing, and it all being about the action.

You'll find that isn't the case with most on here. :cool:
 
Mugs that blew their cash on fobts boost the value of the big bookmaking chains who in turn boost pension funds and so on

It's a worthy transfer of cash from the pond life to the deserving
 
I can't read all the posts because they bore me. Bet365 are ******* massive, ******* global. They are correct not to tolerate unprofitable business.
 
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I think the one with the moustache starred in old Woody Allen movie," Everything you wanted to know about sex but were afraid to ask". He played a transvestite in a red dress. All they said is right mind.
 
What is it you want?

If you're a smart punter you should evolve and find ways to get on (like the rest of us(. Sitting around bitching about it will make you ZERO money. Anything that makes you no money is a waste of your time.

And btw Bet365 are not a 'British bookmaker' per se. They are a global monster.
 
As for FOBTs - who gives a ****? Let the idiots do their brains. Why do people get on the morale high ground about how people choose to spend their money.
 
clivex said:
Mugs that blew their cash on fobts boost the value of the big bookmaking chains who in turn boost pension funds and so on

It's a worthy transfer of cash from the pond life to the deserving
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Well said Sir.
 
Gambler said:
Reet Hard, regarding Bet365, they are Britains biggest online bookie, in the year to 31/3/2013, they had turnover of 20 billion, up from 12.5 billion the year before, seeing as how they are the biggest restricters/closers of accounts for winning or clued up horse punters, that increase or most of it can be put down to sports mugs and those addicted to their online versions of FOBT's. With pre-tax profits of nearly 200 million, they are well ahead of the others and as a majority family owned business, they are happy without the additional headache of a High Street presence, I would imagine.

The correlation between FOBT's and bookies not taking bets, is as plain as day, in 2008, UK bookies held 4% of UK High Street floorspace, today it's 9%, so if they have more than doubled their presence, why are they not taking bets or only taking bets from those they know to be horse backing mugs, there are not enough mugs around to justify opening shops just for them, it's because each new shop opened, allows them to install 4 FOBT's, cut the number of staff required to run the shop, as only one staff member is required for supervision duties and then sit back and rake in guaranteed no risk profits from each machine, without the headache of employing extra staff to take horseracing bets, that are not risk free.

Have a look at any of their published Annual Accounts, where they give details of their future financial plans, Ladbrokes for example, in their published plans not too long ago, said they were opening 90 plus new shops in the year ahead (2013) and in another section, laid out their planned staff reduction numbers. Look at how they have done away with BOG for telephone placed bets but retain Bog if you back online, why would you need telephone staff when you are not interested in taking horseracing bets going forward, steer your punter online to avail of BOG, kills two birds with the one stone, staff cuts and easier to seperate the chaff(mugs) from the wheat(shrewdies) and manage accounts online, with the added bonus that you can keep an eye on them through the use of cookies, any business opening 90 plus shops, surely would be hiring staff as opposed to boasting about the massive savings they are going to make by cutting staff while massively expanding.

Ireland and the UK punter are basically cut from the same cloth, we love our racing and we bet, there wouldn't be a lot of difference between amount bet per head I'd imagine between both of our average punters, allowing for our population of say 4.5 million compared to the UK of say 63 million, if bookies here in Ireland are opening shops on an ongoing basis, employing 2 to 3 staff members at all times in a shop and more at busy times, while not having any FOBT's and still making massive profits, nobody can tell me that bookies in the UK would not make massive profits from horseracing and general sports betting alone in their shops, they will and let's not forget that up to 6 years ago they did since their inception, then came the Golden Goose in the form of an FOBT, which is solely and exclusively responsible for the UK bookie refusing/restricting the ordinary punter, FFS imagine walking into a bookies and being told you can have 10 on at SP and not the 20 you wanted on at 6/1 or whatever, or even worse being refused a bet completely, actually you don't have to imagine, it's happening daily.

The two lads in the video may not be the most elequent of people when putting forward the truth, but seeing as they are like the rest of us, basically ordinary punters, they should be applauded for doing what none of the onscreen gravy trainers or Racing Post gravy hacks will do. As for both of our supposed industry regulators in Ireland and the UK, don't get me started, strokes being pulled in maidens daily in order to get a mark, non runners taking out by trainers with a "self cert" where the reduced number of runners will mean that the bookies have less to pay out under each way terms, blatent non triers, the Tote sold off cheaply to that muppet Done, with returns reduced to ripoff levels.

Anyway lads, I've got to get back to studying for tomorrow, LOL, you know it makes sense, basically we're all mugs at the end of the day.

Happy and Lucky Punting to you all.
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You're so wrong here. Bet365's model is simple. A high street presence would hinder not help their brand. All the smart money is in the shops these days and the overheards are massive. The 365 model is the way forward for bookmaking. Be the market leader in competitive pricing and close the sharp lads. Job done. They are in the hand of making money and they owe no punter nothing.
 
Slim, I suggest you read my posts again, I have no problem getting on, Bet365 are a British bookmaker, they, to their credit are registered in the UK and pay their full share of UK taxes, unlike the other offshore shysters, I am not taking any moral high ground, people have a right to spend their money how they like, my gripe is at bookies who are hiding behind licences that they were given in order to be just that, bookies, not mini casino operators, with no intention of taking a bet.
 
Slim, I'm beginning to doubt you can read, but then I should have seen the obvious, where you state up above that you can't read all posts because they bore you.

What am I wrong about regarding Bet365, READ my post again, here's a start for you,

they are happy without the additional headache of a High Street presence, I would imagine.

Read and understand what's being written, before you wrongly dive in.
 
So you're on the morale high ground. So what place does this thread have on a forum amongst people who want to discuss horse racing and betting?
 
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Of course it has a place. It is a betting topic. Very much linked to the levy, etc. You may think he's on a moral high ground, you're within your rights to disagree, but of course it's worth debating.

By addressing his points, not ridiculing his right to have them.
 
Bar the Bull said:
Of course it has a place. It is a betting topic. Very much linked to the levy, etc. You may think he's on a moral high ground, you're within your rights to disagree, but of course it's worth debating.

By addressing his points, not ridiculing his right to have them.
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I'm not ridiculing. I just think its counter productive to worry about these things. There is literally money to be made every day betting so why waste time worrying about bookmakers and/or FOBTS?
 
Bar the Bull said:
Of course it has a place. It is a betting topic. Very much linked to the levy, etc. You may think he's on a moral high ground, you're within your rights to disagree, but of course it's worth debating.

By addressing his points, not ridiculing his right to have them.
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Plus the thread starter has an obvious agenda. Why should this forum host it? Is he making any worthwhile contributions anywhere else on the forum?
 
SlimChance said:
As for FOBTs - who gives a ****? Let the idiots do their brains. Why do people get on the morale high ground about how people choose to spend their money.
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Because somebody has to deal with the fallout, either directly or indirectly.

Directly: teachers have to deal with emotionally damaged kids with no role models in their lives outside of school.

Directly: social work has to deal with kids if/when the school system can't find a way to support them. They also have to deal with the addicts.

Indirectly: all of us via our taxes have to fund support and benefits for both kids and adults.

Every independent report published will tell you gaming machines are extremely dangerous. Bookies are obliged to display notices asking customers to gamble responsibly. It's a bit like taking a kid to a sweetie shop and saying to them, 'Try not to eat everything in the shop'.
 
Desert Orchid said:
Because somebody has to deal with the fallout, either directly or indirectly.

Directly: teachers have to deal with emotionally damaged kids with no role models in their lives outside of school.

Directly: social work has to deal with kids if/when the school system can't find a way to support them. They also have to deal with the addicts.

Indirectly: all of us via our taxes have to fund support and benefits for both kids and adults.

Every independent report published will tell you gaming machines are extremely dangerous. Bookies are obliged to display notices asking customers to gamble responsibly. It's a bit like taking a kid to a sweetie shop and saying to them, 'Try not to eat everything in the shop'.
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If a child in a sweetie shop has £500 they can. It's a choice.
 
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