The Greatest Thiefs Of The World

W

Wassermusik

At the Start
Joined
May 2, 2003
Messages
146
well instead of going to Cheltenham i spent the today in London, watching Grey Abbey in a William Hill Shop and otherwise hanging around in the British Museum.
So interesting, but:
What you Brits stole from the world - and therefore prevented for history - is incredible...
 
OK, I don't understand what you mean about "and therefore prevented from history" - you could say "preserved" rather than "prevented" because the artefacts are there for historians and students of history to discover and pore over. I hold no brief for colonialism of any kind, and indeed cannot understand why the Elgin marbles have not been returned to Greece, but you have to remember that much, if not most, of the world from which the items stem was British when they were added to the collections. Not something I approve of, but a fact.

And why didn't you visit Cheltenham - the place where history is made?
 
I think what we took balances out pretty well with what we gave to the world, especially in the areas of medicine, industrial progress, inventions, and the democratic cause. And, on balance, I believe that British colonialism set in place better foundations for its' colonized countries to build on, post-independence, than those held by the repressive Italians, the suppressive French, the Germans and, especially, the very bloody Belgians.
 
Brian: of course i meant actually "preserved". Otherwise some things would have vanished forever. about ruling the world i am not sure if Egypt or Mesopotamia where ever part of the british empire?

Krizon: the difference being, that you gave to the world voluntarily, while what you took was mostly without asking or with violence.

Ian: you should be proud that you have such a treasure in your capital. fascinating and great. in fact i visited it two days in a row.

Brian: i was long undecided, but i was not feeling so well, so the 6 hours train to cheltenham and back in one day seemed too much, i was worried, my cold would get worse. tragic, that i did not stand by my believe in Grey Abbey. i lost bigger bets before that day on sebald and royal rosa, so i refrained from trying to get my money back and failed to finance a nice London evening.
 
I think what we took balances out pretty well with what we gave to the world, especially in the areas of medicine, industrial progress, inventions, and the democratic cause. And, on balance, I believe that British colonialism set in place better foundations for its' colonized countries to build on, post-independence, than those held by the repressive Italians, the suppressive French, the Germans and, especially, the very bloody Belgians.
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At last we've found it! The perfect posting. There is enough material in that one to last us until Christmas.
 
I am ashamed to admit that I first went to the \british Museum in February last year . I thought that it was wonderful . As for the Elgin Marbles it has to be remembered the reason they are so badly damaged is that the Parthenon was used as an ammunition dump .
 
The day I come onto this forum, AC, and find you've put up more than one sarky one-liner or a rambling snore-fest about Oliver Cromwell, I will paint myself green and live wild in the woods forever.
 
"It has to be remembered the reason they the Elgin Marbles are so badly damaged is that the Parthenon was used as an ammunition dump"
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Not so, my learned friend. When the Italian General Morosini fired on the Acropolis because the Turks were using the Parthenon as an arsenal the entire store of gunpowder within exploded. This did indeed cause terrible damage to the Parthenon - the roof was blown off and everything inside was destroyed. But, as if by a miracle, the frieze survived.

When Elgin visited the Acropolis he was given permission (by the Turks, who occupied Greece at the time) to remove anything which was lying on the ground. Elgin decided to take the statues off the Parthenon frieze also.

This frieze was actually part of the building, not just stuck on. Elgin got his workmen to saw the frieze off. This also involved destroying parts of the building in order to lower the sculptures to the ground. A lot of damage to the Parthenon building was caused during these works.

During Elgin's protracted negotiations to sell the marbles to the British government they were stored in a coal shed for many years. The shed was very damp and this damaged the Marbles.

The British Museum has not looked after the Marbles as well as once was claimed. It is now admitted that in the 1930s the Marbles were cleaned. The surface of the marbles was damaged in the process.

I firmly believe that they should be returned to Greece.
 
The primary cause of damage was the explosion of the ammunition dump albeit precipitated by General Morosini
 
I thought that members of your profession were supposed to work from the facts?
It was on 26th September 1687, that the Venetian General Fransesco Morosini had the Parthenon under siege and it took one cannon shell to blow off the roof and one side of the Parthenon - but most of the sculptures remained in position. It was these that were unharmed which were removed by Lord Elgin's contractors in the early 19th century. Damage was caused here, again by Elgin's poor storage and once more by the museum's detergents and chisels in the 1930s when the misguided attempts at cleaning were made.
 
Surely not another example of perfidious Albion? :o

I must say I'd heard Brian's explanation previously. There was a tv programme some months ago which noted that much damage was caused by the marbles being poorly stored, too.
 
I think what we took balances out pretty well with what we gave to the world, especially in the areas of medicine, industrial progress, inventions, and the democratic cause
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Hmm ... six counties ... Dyson vacuum cleaner ... six counties ... Dyson ... hmmm ... it's a tough call.
 
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