The most negelcted and buried subjects in the English curriculum.

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Irish history? The troubles? The Potato Famine? Home Rule? The Celts? Bloody Sunday?

A disgrace that for so long the most intellectual teaching of this great race and Country over in England to young people were confined to jokes about grenades, imo.

When will this be treat as a topic worthy to be put on the national curriculum by the British government?

Marb
 
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marble said:
Irish history? The troubles? The Potato Famine? Home Rule? The Celts? Bloody Sunday?

A disgrace that for so long the most intellectual teaching of this great race and Country over in England to young people were confined to jokes about grenades, imo.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong and let me know if it already has, but when will this be treat as a topic worthy to be put on the national curriculum by the British government?

Marb
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What on earth are you slavering about? I assume you didnt get Modern Studies or Social Studies at school? Also Potato famine is covered in most general history classes! Stay off the Whiskey laddie.
 
It wasn't even a topic on the curriculum in Northern Ireland when I went to school (left 15 years ago). It is now though.

It's much more convenient for the mainland population to think of us a bunch of ignorant Paddys with funny accents.
 
Digger said:
What on earth are you slavering about? I assume you didnt get Modern Studies or Social Studies at school? Also Potato famine is covered in most general history classes! Stay off the Whiskey laddie.
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Hahaha - ok sugar tits.
You've just claimed that the mainland ignores Irish history. Thats simply a lie, now please point me in the direction of any subject you've spoken sense on?
 
Someone needs help:whistle:
Marble has always imputed into forums and tried to be thought provoking.
You talk about lies but accuse me of being an alcoholic when I'm not even a drinker. Hypocrite.
As for your actual point, Irish history has never been on the National Curriculum for under-16's in England, mainly because the Irish subject (not just the Potato Famine) didn't fit the profile for something to be discussed for some reason...
 
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We had to spend an entire term studying it (circa 1983), AEB board for what I think was a policy called the Schools History Project.

Admittedly when Thatcher introduced the GCSE things became less challenging and we've seen a slide in standards ever since as increasingly dumbed down teachers (GCSE products themselves) are introduced to teach an ever lowering bar to at least two generations of GCSE students

All power to Michael Gove I say, at least he said enough is enough and realised that the curriculum was being taught for the benefit of teachers and administrators and started to look into subjects that might actually be of some use, and topics within them that are relevant
 
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I've drunk a fair bit of coffee today so am a bit hyped up, but my point is still the same.

I'm not suggesting this has to come at the expense of other key subjects,...not for a moment, but I think, (as Flagship Uberalles clearly alludes to), this topic has been massively covered up agenda-wise by the Establishment in England. I can't speak for the other places.
If anyone could show us the current History curriculum for under 16's at GCSE level then please do.
 
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marble said:
Someone needs help:whistle:
Marble has always imputed into forums and tried to be thought provoking.
You talk about lies but accuse me of being an alcoholic when I'm not even a drinker. Hypocrite.
As for your actual point, Irish history has never been on the National Curriculum for under-16's in England, mainly because the Irish subject (not just the Potato Famine) didn't fit the profile for something to be discussed for some reason...
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1. Dont talk about yourself in the 3rd person. Its moronic. Note i'm not calling you a moron.
2. I at no point called you an alcoholic. Stop making things up.
3. Irish Studies and the history of the troubles in Ireland are covered in Social Studies classes. The level of detail is up to the teacher.

Do you actually think there should be a seperate subject for Irish Studies at schools on the mainland? The Hong Kong troubles are hardly covered now either. They dont even spend time on 1066!
Your point really does have no point.
I look forward to your next post.
 
Fair enough Digger. Social studies eh? Is that a posher name for Sociology then?

Well if this is true thankyou for correcting me. I may have spoken from my own personal schooling, which was a while back. If things have changed since then I'm pleased. I'm pretty confident this is a newer development for state school-educated under 16's though and possibly hasn't always been the case?

You may want to correct me here again?

Ps, lets leave any personal grudges aside if we can.
 
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marble said:
If anyone could show us the current History curriculum for under 16's at GCSE level then please do.
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Term 1 - 'What I did last night'
Term 2 - Those who show distinction in term 1 graduate to 'what I did last week'

I'm perplexed by this though

A disgrace that for so long the most intellectual teaching of this great race and Country over in England to young people were confined to jokes about grenades, imo.

Now I'm no apologist for the second most self regarding 'profession' on the planet, but are you suggesting that in your opinion, teachers actually taught this? And I doubt even the most myopic of Irishmen would recognise that description of themselves incidentally. A "great race". Errr... really? I'd suggest that most Irish would proabbly think you were taking the **** to be honest. If history is to be atught as great races and civilisations etc I doubt the Irish would figure that prominently in many appraisals. I think you need a bit of global context
 
I was taught about the Irish troubles when i was at school and thats a long long time ago (it was part of Modern Studies). One of my kids did a project on the history of Ireland when they were in Primary 7. As i say the NC or Curriculum for Excellence is just a guideline. It is up to the teachers to decide what actual subjects they detail - the process is to encourage learning and develop not just to learn historical facts.
 
No. I'm not suggesting teachers taught that joke Warbler, an hour ago I wasn't suggesting teachers taught anything about Irish history.:) I attended secondary school in North London in the 1990's.

The 'what do you do if an Irishman throws a grenade at you...take the pin out and throw it back' joke, was just one joke that people from many other races and classes used when I grew up.

This was all the more reason to teach some Irish history in secondary schools, imo
I often challenged my headteacher as to why we didn't study this in my school.
I was told because 'we don't' etc.
If things have changed Warbler then that is a positive development.

To be fair, even in Religious Education, Christianity was a touchy subject. Every other religion was taught excessively. Were we taught the Ten Commandments or Lords Prayer? No.

My mother scorns at me when I say I can't recite the Lords Prayer, but I honestly was not taught this.

She is a Christian (doesn't attend church or anything but in principle believes in god), whereas I am open minded.

As for your other question.. well possibly the wording was wrong, you're analysing the semantics but the message I was trying to get over in my opening post was obviously quite clear and seems worthy of discussing at least.
 
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marble said:
No... I'm not suggesting teachers taught that, an hour ago I wasn't suggesting teachers taught anything about Irish history.:) I attended secondary school in North London in the 1990's.

As for your other point...yes well possibly the wording was wrong, your analysing the semantics but the message I was trying to get over which was obviously quite clear.
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So...in reality You went to a school where YOUR teacher decided it wasnt the best use of their time to teach the class the History of Ireland.
 
I'd be delighted if my kids werent taught the Lords Prayer. They may as well teach them Levitation and Mind Reading tricks!
 
All the other religion then?
By this reasoning scrap religious education altogether? Yes or no then, Mr Digger?
You may well be right, but often policy is changed afterwards in government departments when there's been blatant mess-ups or half thought-through curriculums.

There is absolutely nothing to say that if I wasn't being taught Irish history, others weren't either.
I can certainly speak for the entire age group of the school I attended.
I'm not interested in going on about my own education, I consider myself to highly enough educated now, but I would like to know more about this issue.
I still suspect there is a possibility your referring to evidentially skewed shite, but I'll come back at a later date with some evidence for that.
 
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From my experience of meeting my peers at English or Welsh universities (people who would have sat GCSE circa mid 90s), I would be astounded if this was on the curriculum then. They literally hadn't a notion what any of it was about - also, as it wasn't taught on the curriculum in Northern Ireland neither did anyone else. I don't know what time range it wasn't on the curriculum for, but the only way people learned about the Troubles was from their parents or peers - the education system as I knew it never mentioned it even once.

The result is a generation of idiots traditionally voting for Sinn Fein and the DUP yet still somehow expecting them to make progress.
 
My own experiences are identical to yours, and I'd like to know why that's the case.

I grew up only with a mum, my father was Irish however. I often wanted to know more about 'The Irish', warts-and-all.. in the widest possible sense. I make no apologies for that.
 
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marble said:
My own experiences are identical to yours, and I'd like to know why that's the case.

I grew up only with a mum, my father was Irish however. I often wanted to know more about 'The Irish', warts-and-all.. in the widest possible sense. I make no apologies for that.
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I was taught it twice Miss Marple. Can you imagine why?
 
No.. because based on your representations I think you're an a idiot.
Plenty of people over the years decided to pretty much ignore my postings on here for whatever their own reason which they're entitled to do, but you seem someone with a particular axe to grind.
I am someone who has stood for the local council by the age of 23, achieved a 2:1 degree and been a company director of a social enterprise.

Who are you exactly?
If you're intellectually challenged then go and find someone who you can bully.
I don't usually get this angry but I've had your 'digs' too often.
 
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At school in Ireland, I was taught virtually no British history -- so it works both ways.
(Any British history mentioned was only in the context of how that British history element impacted on Ireland).
So I think a history curriculum is geographically-specific by necessity; a history curriculum is tailored to the the country in which the history is taught. The history of Papua/New Guinea might be very interesting to Papuans, but should it be taught in English schools?

It was and is a mistake not to teach English history in Irish schools. Maybe a sore point, but Irish history is insular. As against English history which is consequential and of international importance. English history is of empire, the foundations of parliamentary democracy, of global affairs. Irish history is of nothing, really, except maybe of how NOT to do things. Teaching Irish history in schools anywhere outside of Ireland is a timewaste. There is nothing to be gleaned from it.
 
I remember growing up in North London. People often suspected we were a little safer given the well established Irish population in the area.
I will do some research on the curriculum thing later.
 
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I took history at "O" level and as a Higher at school in Scotland.

We were taught a small amount about Scottish history in 1st and 2nd year of High School.
In the O level, we learned about the First World War. Pretty much exclusively in my recollection.
In the Higher we learned about the 1848 Revolutions across Europe, more on the First World War and the life and times of Bismarck.

We learned bugger all about Ireland, or England, except where they intersected with those topics. Or the Second World War, much to my chagrin.
 
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