The Sentence Never Fits The Crime Ba$tards!

Merlin the Magician

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A young couple whose baby died after suffering multiple injuries and neglect have avoided being sent to jail.
Ceri Thomas, 21, of Bridgend, and Sarah Scott, 19, of Cardiff, admitted cruelty to four-month-old Chloe.

When she died in 2003, her skull, wrists, ribs and legs were fractured.

At Cardiff Crown Court Scott, who was pregnant at 15, was given a three-year community rehabilitation order. Thomas was jailed for three months, but had already served that time on remand.

The court heard how Thomas and Scott - who gave their daughter tea and water instead of milk - refused to co-operate with social services and had kept their child in "grubby and untidy conditions".

Chloe was a normal healthy baby who needed care and nurture. Sadly this was not forthcoming


Peter Murphy QC, prosecuting, said: "Chloe was a battered and neglected child.

"They failed to take her to baby clinics, would not sterilise her bottles and would not communicate with professionals.

"Chloe was a normal healthy baby who needed care and nurture. Sadly this was not forthcoming."

The court was told that in the weeks before her death, Chloe was admitted to hospital with bruising, underweight and in obvious distress.

Doctors were extremely concerned by Chloe's physical state and by her parents' lack of co-operation, Mr Murphy said.

"Chloe was discharged but readmitted to hospital weeks later with breathing difficulties," he added.

She was admitted to the Princess of Wales Hospital, Bridgend, on 2 April, 2003 with injuries including a fractured skull and breaks to all her limbs. She died nine days later.

He did not cause her death. He did not assault her. He was reckless rather than deliberate


"It is impossible to say how these injuries were sustained. They might have been inflicted by a third party," Mr Murphy added.

"There is no evidence against Thomas or Scott to suggest they murdered Chloe."

Thomas, the court heard, had been adopted as a young child and Scott was the only child of five siblings not to be taken into care.

John Charles Rees, defending Thomas, said: "He did not cause her death. He did not assault her. He was reckless rather than deliberate.

"Both he and Scott mistrusted social services and were misguided by youth and immaturity.

"All the injuries could have been inflicted in one single incident.

"The prosecution cannot say who that could have been. It may have been a third party."

You were most ill-equipped to become a mother. This explains but does not excuse your actions. But sending you to prison would be completely wrong

Ian Murphy, defending Scott, told the court that she was only 15 when she became pregnant.

"She lacked experiences needed to have a deeper understanding of how to bring up children," he added.

Judge Mr Justice Jack told Scott: "You were only 15 when Chloe was conceived. You had a difficult childhood and were kept back from school to look after your siblings.

"You were most ill-equipped to become a mother. This explains but does not excuse your actions. But sending you to prison would be completely wrong."

He told Thomas that he had to do far more to look after Chloe than he would have done if Scott had been a better mother.

In a previous hearing at Swansea Crown Court, the prosecution had asked for the sentencing to take place at a more secure court because of the possible reaction of relatives and members of the public.

After the hearing, Bridgend Council issued a statement describing it as a "very sad case".

The council's Tony Garthwaite said: "We can confirm that we were involved in attempting to provide support to the family, as reported in media coverage of the case. We are also able to confirm that we assisted the police throughout their enquiries".
 
I'd lock them both up and throw away the key :angy: It's hardly rocket science, the needs of a newborn baby.
 
GRIFFIN and I would also agree with your statement.... what a pair of tossers hey!!! Castrate him so he fathers no more... and give her a hysterectomyor sterilise her so she never ever brings another baby into this world.......... that poor baby must have suffered one hell of a short life.............. :angry:
 
Horrendous as what happened to his poor child is - you know nothing of the facts of the case - or moreover the pre-sentence reports that the judge will have read . I can only imagine that the circumstances were exceptional for the sentences to be as they are.

What law change do you propose ? Castration , hysterectomy I see you suggest as punishments . Fortunately this is the 21st and not the 14th century .

The question that really needs answering is what idiot in social services thought it appropriate to let the child go home despite being admitted to hospital in such a state .
 
Sickening h:) On another note of cruelty I heard on the news tonight about a staffy being tied to a tree & burnt alive, they had even put a muzzle on the poor mite so it could not bark :cry:
 
Originally posted by Ardross@Feb 20 2006, 10:11 PM
You know nothing of the facts of the case - or moreover the pre-sentence reports that the judge will have read . I can only imagine that the circumstances were exceptional for the sentences to be as they are.

What law change do you propose ? Castration , hysterectomy I see you suggest as punishments . Fortunately this is the 21st and not the 14th century .

The question that really needs answering is what idiot in social services thought it appropriate to let the child go home despite being admitted to hospital in such a state .
:o And what makes you think that you no more than I do!! its happened on my doorstep its been in the media for a few yrs now.......

You would obviously like the rest of the judiciary!! give them a slapped wrist like they have already received... :rolleyes:

Your talk bollocks half of the time...???????????? how can you blame social services for the sentence they were given?????

Also read how the case was heard away from some people(the bairns family) who were going to get a little bit of revenge............what would you do shake the guys hand and say well done mate a brilliant offence to have committed...... :rolleyes:

Yes if they commit offences that one would expect barbarians to commit! well punish them as such also…………..
 
It's a truly shocking case by the sound of it but I'm with Ardross. The man most in possession of the facts, the judge, will have had good reasons for arriving at the sentences. In time, maybe more of the facts will come out and maybe there'll be more reason to accept the judgment, maybe not. Maybe a review will lengthen the sentences. We'll see, but I despair of people who jump to conclusions on the basis of media reports.

I admit I haven't been following the Jenkins trial closely but I noted a number of loud calls of injustice when he was cleared. I then read some other convict had confessed to the murder - again I haven't read it all closely enough but if it's true then how do those calling for the foster father to be jailed or even hanged sleep at night?
 
No idea of the circumstances but does sound truly sickening. Same is true with a case in my local area in which the boyfriend smothered his son after he split with the childs mother to get back at her :(
 
Originally posted by Ardross@Feb 20 2006, 10:11 PM


The question that really needs answering is what idiot in social services thought it appropriate to let the child go home despite being admitted to hospital in such a state .
Yeah, this is where the focus should be. It`s pretty obvious in this country we have a whole underclass of people who are just vermin basically, and the social services should be given as much power as is possible to monitor and do as they see fit with the welfare of the children these people have.
 
Originally posted by Euronymous@Feb 20 2006, 11:18 PM
It`s pretty obvious in this country we have a whole underclass of people who are just vermin basically.
Yes, let's herd them together all into one place and then gas them.
 
"Going to the gassing? Anybody going to the gassing? Get your Sarin canisters here! Special price! Tabun canisters - two for the price of one! Family packs of Zyklon-B now in stock! Gassing? Going to the gassing?"

(With apologies to M. Python, Esq.)
 
Originally posted by BrianH@Feb 21 2006, 12:18 AM
Yes, let's herd them together all into one place and then gas them.
Goodness Brian, and you say that some on here are over reacting at the possibility of bird flu arriving in the UK! :lol:
 
And in todays Sun they have a story about the man who killed headteacher Phillip Lawrence. Sentenced to a minimum of 12 years in 1996, at the weekend he was allowed out of Ford Prison on day release. He spent the day shopping and eating out in London with family. He's aged 25 now and apparently has shown not a shred of remorse for what he did.

Is that justice?
 
and apparently has shown not a shred of remorse for what he did.

That opinion comes from an un-named prison officer. It may or may not be the case, but I wouldn't be quick to take The Sun's word over it.
 
Originally posted by BrianH+Feb 21 2006, 12:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BrianH @ Feb 21 2006, 12:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Euronymous@Feb 20 2006, 11:18 PM
It`s pretty obvious in this country we have a whole underclass of people who are just vermin basically.
Yes, let's herd them together all into one place and then gas them. [/b][/quote]
Steady on, i wasn`t advocating any punishment. Surely you cannot disagree with my statement?
 
Originally posted by Euronymous@Feb 21 2006, 09:47 AM
Steady on, i wasn`t advocating any punishment. Surely you cannot disagree with my statement?
I disagree with any statement from anyone which classifies fellow human beings as vermin. This is a mindset that is encouraged by despots in order that the population has no conscience to prick them when ethnic cleansing starts. I'm sure you don't need me to cite examples, of which there are, sadly, more than enough.
 
Generally speaking, Brian, I agree with you but during my years behind the Post Office counter I did come into contact with one man, who I thought should have been prevented from reproducing.

I realise that this comes over as rather arrogant but to say that this man was little worse than an animal, would be an insult to animals.

Complete waste of space.
 
Originally posted by Ardross@Feb 21 2006, 10:45 AM
Not sure whether they are very reliable sources Griffin - the Daily Mail and the Sun
They wouldn't be but it was a lead item on Radio 4 News yesterday and I do tend to believe them....

As to the attitude that the judge had the benefit of pre-sentence reports, now who's being naive? Sorry but their sentences are totally inadequate and since when has any judge always been an infallible source of justice, James?

It is equally arrogant to take the view that Judges and their sentencing shouldn't be questioned as it is to try to impose sterilisation on the perpetrators (unacceptable in a civilised society, Merlin - along the lines of two wrongs do not a right make etc etc).

They should have received lengthy custodial sentences regardless of extenuating circumstances - a child lost her life, for Heaven's sake - there can be no excuse for that. By all means ensure that they receive psychological help while inside to try to understand where/why they did what they did and do the best that can be done to hope they don't reoffend but dishing out any other 'punishment' just gives a bad example.

After all, James, you're pushing for the Law to 'soak' those who transgress the Hunting Bill so that they receive the maximum punishment - where's the difference?

Oh yes, of course, - in one example a child loses her life (blame the Social Services, the State - anyone except those actually responsible) - in the other a cute fox gets ripped apart - yup, a tricky dilemma that. Let's clutter up the prison system with those arrogant class-ridden Hunt supporters.......
 
(1) At no point have I suggested that judges are infallible - of course they are not .

(2) It is absurd to suggest that sentencing shouldn't be questioned, I haven't done that . The right people to question an individual sentence are the defence if the sentence appears manifestly excessive and the Attorney General if it is unduly lenient . They are in possession of all the facts . Not the newspapers . Perhaps it is worth recalling the drunk driver whose sentence was unduly lenient but in respect of whom the Court of Appeal refused to increase the sentence because of a rabid campaign in the media that had led to his family being harassed and abused .

(3) If , sentencing policy is in question then that is a matter for legitimate debate . I don't know the facts of this case any more than you do but I suspect there might be a history of abuse , learning disabilities and mental health problems involved . I don't believe that the sentences for child cruelty are generally too short . In the vast majority of cases a custodial sentence will result

(4) I suspect that this offence took place before the change in child cruelty cases that makes it much easier to prosecute if the parents refuse to implicate each other.

(5) I don't know all the facts . Thus I don't know whether the sentence was unduly lenient . As I have said above I can only suggest that the circumstances must have been exceptional . If they weren't then it is more than likely that the AG will make a reference and the sentence be increased .

What this case does not give any grounds for is a suggestion that the law should be changed that all judges are soft and that castration and hysterectomies should be introduced as punishments.

One final point , if you check the earlier BBC news reports you will find that earlier charges of murder were dropped it appears on the grounds of conflicting medical evidence.
 
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