Timeform's Top Horses

Desert Orchid

Senior Jockey
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
24,745
I'm not a great fan/follower of Timeform although I do usually buy the horses to follow book because it's usually a decent enough read and reasonable value for the money. Timeform does seem still to hold some gravitas in the racing community so I'm presuming some people on here areat least interested in their opinions.

Rather than add this update on different threads, I reckoned it might be an idea to give it a thread of its own. Timeform updates its top horses lists fairly regularly, roughly every fortnight, so if I get the chance I'll update them here too.

The most recent ones are (I'll add the others later today):

OLDER HORSES​
128KYPRIOS
128WHITE BIRCH
127AUGUSTE RODIN
126ALFLAILA
126LUXEMBOURG
125ANMAAT
125CONTINUOUS
125pEMILY UPJOHN
125INSPIRAL (f)
125KING OF STEEL
125MASTER OF THE SEAS
125REBEL'S ROMANCE
124pPASSENGER
124COURAGE MON AMI
124HAMISH
124NATIONS PRIDE
123NASHWA (f)
122ART POWER
122BRADSELL
122ELEGANT MAN
122LIVE IN THE DREAM
122MANACCAN
122TOWER OF LONDON
 
I've read their verdicts many times.

They have disagreed with every horse I've ever fancied.

Which makes me respect them ever more.
 
Good idea, desert, I think their “ratings update” pieces are worth a read to put a bit of oomph behind the bare figures. Last one, for example:

By John Ingles — published 3rd June 2024
John Ingles provides the Timeform ratings reaction to City of Troy's Derby win and the rest of Epsom.

The Derby field might have been lacking three of the major trial winners – Economics, Arabian Crown and Hidden Law – but there’s every reason to think the form was up to scratch with two of the major trial winners who did take part filling the places behind a resurgent City of Troy (127p from 123) who provided Aidan O’Brien with his tenth winner of the race.

Just like stablemate Auguste Rodin twelve months earlier, City of Troy had to bounce back from defeat in the 2000 Guineas but did so in thoroughly convincing fashion to reclaim his position as leader of the classic generation, having lost that spot to Guineas winner Notable Speech last month. Looking every bit the exciting prospect his two-year-old career had promised, City of Troy evidently relished the extra half-mile despite taking a strong grip for a long way under much more restraint than in his earlier races.

But when Ryan Moore asked him to make ground up the inner early in the straight, City of Troy responded with an eye-catching move and was in command through the final two furlongs, preceded only by the riderless outsider Voyage who’d unseated leaving the stalls. That apart, it was a very clean Derby given the large field, with City of Troy having two and three quarter lengths to spare over the Lingfield Derby Trial winner Ambiente Friendly (119 from 117) in second with the winner’s stablemate Los Angeles (116p from 110p) beaten a total of six lengths into third after helping force the pace.

By American triple crown winner Justify, how much more of City of Troy is seen on European turf remains to be seen, though, as a US dirt campaign taking in the Travers Stakes and Breeders’ Cup Classic is the likely plan for him at this stage.

That may well leave races like the Irish Derby and St Leger for stablemate Los Angeles who’s a fine sort physically and open to improvement, while runner-up Ambiente Friendly confirmed himself a smart colt although no match for the winner after impressing with the way he travelled through the race.

The Oaks, which was run on softer ground the previous day, had more of a substandard look overall but it was another truly-run race and progressive winner Ezeliya (118p from 104p) showed much improved form for the greater test of stamina in keeping with some stout Aga Khan breeding on her dam’s side. She’s not the biggest, but she handled the track well and ran out a ready winner, the main question now being how effective she’ll prove on firmer ground having done all her winning under softer conditions. With that in mind, she could reportedly be kept for an autumn campaign taking in the Prix Vermeille and Arc. She’s likely to progress further and is well up to winning more good races.

Runner-up Dance Sequence (113p from 105) has taken a while to fulfil two-year-old promise but fared much better than she had in the 1000 Guineas on softer ground than previously, proving effective over the longer trip but not seeing it out quite as strongly as the winner whilst not for the first time hanging in the closing stages. She has plenty about her physically and should continue to run well. War Chimes (110 from 100) is quite an imposing type too and outran her odds of 50/1 in staying on for third, seeming to excel herself despite looking ill at ease on the track.

Epsom’s other Group 1, the Coronation Cup, resulted in fewer significant ratings changings with the merits of the older horses being fairly well established. Luxembourg didn’t need to quite run to his existing rating of 126 to make all the running under a finely-judged ride in a tactical contest, with the thoroughly likeable Hamish(124 from 122) sticking to his task a length back in second under his ideal underfoot conditions. Last year’s impressive winner Emily Upjohn (125 from 126), on the other hand, wasn’t at her best in a race not run to suit, finishing only fourth of five, and is worth another chance to show she’s as good as last year.

Of the two Group 3 contests on Derby Day, the Diomed Stakes was much the better race, with Royal Scotsman(117 from 115) putting a poor run in the Lockinge Stakes behind him with a change of tactics and drop in grade. Making all in a race without an obvious pacemaker, he won unchallenged from a smart field but whether he’ll have everything in his favour like this another time remains to be seen, especially if his sights are raised again.

The listed Surrey Stakes for three-year-olds over seven furlongs didn’t look that well contested beforehand but two colts showed plenty of improvement to pull a long way clear of the rest, with Evade (111p from 98) getting the short-head verdict over Native American (110 from 99) despite not being at ease on the track in the closing stages. Trained by Andre Fabre last year, the winner is very much the type to make a better three-year-old for Archie Watson, especially if he learns to settle, and will be worth his place at a higher level, holding a Commonwealth Cup entry. The lightly-raced runner-up is a good sort on looks too and kept on well dropped down in trip, though should stay at least a mile.

Otherwise, there were several smart performances in handicaps over the two days at Epsom. Starting with the ‘Dash’ over five furlongs, the big performance here came from runner-up Democracy Dilemma (111 from 109) who showed his usual early pace but couldn’t quite hold off the late challenge of Dream Composer (101 from 98), conceding the winner nearly a stone. Misty Grey (117 from 114) and Rhoscolyn (112 from 104) were fine adverts for the skill of their trainer David O’Meara with older handicappers in winning the six- and seven-furlong contests respectively, the latter repeating his 2021 win in his race, with both returning to their smart best.

Qatari trainer Hamad Al Jehani went very close to sending out his first winner from his new base at Newmarket after the ex-French Beshtani (116 from 109) went down by a nose in the mile handicap to the thriving Two Tempting (100 from 95), giving over a stone to the winner. Beshtani’s performance would make him competitive in listed company at least but he probably has unfinished business in top handicaps first.

His stablemate, the likeable Haunted Dream (114 from 108), shaped really well in the mile and a quarter handicap, doing well to get competitive after a bad stumble leaving the stalls and finishing fourth to another smart type in the thriving Bolster (114 from 113) who was aided by a well-judged ride from the front while plenty met trouble further back in the field. Another smart performance came from Relentless Voyager (115 from 109) who was a ready winner of the Northern Dancer Handicap over a mile and a half; he doesn’t have many miles on the clock and can make his mark back in higher company, while the Ebor could come under consideration too.

It was also Derby weekend in France where Look de Vega (118p from 97p) maintained his unbeaten record in Sunday’s Prix du Jockey Club at Chantilly. While this looked a substandard renewal beforehand after some very good recent editions, Look de Vega put the race to bed with a fine turn of foot before hitting the line full of running and is clearly improving at a rate of knots having won a minor event at Longchamp on his previous start. The first four home came from the four lowest stalls, with the 113-rated Ghostwriter fourth again as he was in the 2000 Guineas, not quite showing the same form but doing enough to suggest he stayed the longer trip and faring best of the visitors.
 
THREE-YEAR-OLDS​
127pCITY OF TROY
125pNOTABLE SPEECH
121pECONOMICS
121INISHERIN
121ROSALLION
120HENRY LONGFELLOW
119AMBIENTE FRIENDLY
119HAATEM
119VANDEEK
118pEZELIYA
117FALLEN ANGEL (f)
117STAR OF MYSTERY (f)
116pARABIAN CROWN
116pLOS ANGELES
116RIVER TIBER
115pALMAQAM
115pKING'S GAMBIT
115ANCIENT WISDOM
115ELITE STATUS
115JASOUR
115TAMFANA (f)
 
TWO-YEAR-OLDS​
106pWHISTLEJACKET
98pFAIRY GODMOTHER (f)
97pMOUNTAIN BREEZE (f)
97pTREASURE ISLE
97ARIZONA BLAZE
97CAMILLE PISSARRO
95pMIDNIGHT STRIKE
95pSPARKLING SEA (f)
94pCOWARDOFTHECOUNTY
94pMAKE HASTE (f)
94pTHE ACTOR
93pLOCAL LAD
93pSHADOW STORM
93pTROPICAL STORM
93FRANCISCO'S PIECE
93ROCK HUNTER
92pANDESITE
92pARABIE
92pCALIFORNIA DREAMER (f)
92pEVENING SAIGON
92pSCORTHY CHAMP
92pTHE PARTHENON
92pYAH MO BE THERE
 
106pWHISTLEJACKET
127pCITY OF TROY
125pNOTABLE SPEECH
128KYPRIOS
128WHITE BIRCH
I backed all of these in the last 3 weeks...I am a sucker for class horses unfortunately some have a nasty habit of running like drains
 
Can't agree with most of those figures. White birch joint top. Passenger 126p. You cannot be serious as Mr mcenroe would have said. It is all about opinions and a rodin has done it in the big races yet nowhere near top. Baffling to me.
 
Take 5lbs off all the figures and how would they look?

I've said a few times I think TF are 5lbs 'high' but I suppose it's all to scale.
 
Kyprios and White Birch seem about right to me. Altough Kyprios is less likely to be losing any time soon.

As for the 2 year olds I think 116p is insulting Bedtime Story who I reckon is very very special and should be about 4lbs less than Frankel 126 at this stage of their careers.
 
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