Trainer Fees-Who's with the times

Sheikh

Sheikh

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In light of the current economic climate, which trainers are offering value ? I saw an add for 'all in €800 monthly' in the Irish Field yesterday.
I also heard a rumour of some trainers doing 2 for 1. Anyone got any info ?
 
Yeah I heard of one prominent trainer who is doing the 800 a month all in. I won't be looking for a price deduction from Colm on the basis that you get what you pay for and it is easy to drop your price if you buy cheaper food and cheaper labour!!
 
Cantoris said:
Yeah I heard of one prominent trainer who is doing the 800 a month all in. I won't be looking for a price deduction from Colm on the basis that you get what you pay for and it is easy to drop your price if you buy cheaper food and cheaper labour!!
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I wouldn't have the neck to ask for a better rate from Colum If I where you either !

There has been a lot of pure profit on trainers fees over that last no. of years and as with every other industry those who want to survive will need to cut out the fat.Quality does not have to be affected.

Who is the prominent trainer doing €800 all in ?
 
I don't know about Ireland but with all the foreign labour over here now, I know there are several trainers paying under the "advised" amount for stable staff. With cost of feed etc going up so much I don't know how they can be making any profit on £800/month all in. If you add in hidden things like business rates, insurance (personal & public), gallop fees, shoeing, transport - I would imagine the only way round it is for each member of sstaff to be doing at least 8-10 horses each and of course that doesn't happen, does it?
 
A trainer was advertising rates in the RP on Saturday at £99/week all in, no extras. I've seen plenty of others advising free transport/vets fees or whatever which is dangerous ground to be treading - a long trip in the lorry is expensive but not as expensive as an operation for a twisted gut!
 
Of course there a quite a few trainers who are either lucky enough or astute enough to have other businesses / incomes that can subsidise their racing activities and expenses.
 
I wouldn't put any horse with a trianer who included vets' bills on the ground he/she was either a numpty, or didn't give a toss about the welfare of the horses. I've heard of one cut-price trainer who charges all-in fees and throws a wobbly if the vet is called by the HL in his absence - and who never calls a vet himself. I don't want to hear of another!
 
Headstrong said:
I wouldn't put any horse with a trainer who included vets' bills on the ground he/she was either a numpty, or didn't give a toss about the welfare of the horses. I've heard of one cut-price trainer who charges all-in fees and throws a wobbly if the vet is called by the HL in his absence - and who never calls a vet himself. I don't want to hear of another!
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Valid point, I think it's a good idea to have your horse trained not too far from you just to be able to keep an eye on.

There is a difference between cutting corners and giving value for money. Inflation, interest rates and the cost of services has dropped over here so there must be scope to strike a balance without sacrificing standards. One biggish yard I was onto was doing all in 1100e. Training fees, farrier, standard Veterinary, transport and the other bits and pieces. Seems reasonable and do able especially when in a big yard you can negotiate the price of services.
 
I have been offered a good deal from a racing club I'm setting up for the summer off a good up and coming Newmarket trainer. His wife is a qualified Vet which makes those fee's better to look at, but given he is Newmarket based I find it amazing how he could charge what he is proposing. That said he has gone from 6 horses to 17 horses in 2 months, so I suppose the added business he has got by giving 25% off fee's is enough to make it pay with 11 new horses.

I suppose it all comes down to who pays on time, if everyone pays on the 1st of the month, then I suppose it's easier to cut your fee's but if you get 5 or 6 owners paying on 60 days or even 90 days then you may struggle to not charge full with. The cash flow situation for any racehorse trainer must be an absolute nightmare.
 
I suppose it all comes down to who pays on time, if everyone pays on the 1st of the month, then I suppose it's easier to cut your fee's but if you get 5 or 6 owners paying on 60 days or even 90 days then you may struggle to not charge full with. The cash flow situation for any racehorse trainer must be an absolute nightmare.
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Exactly. If you know the money is definately coming in (thats where teh dd's come into it too) its much easier to do cos the oney will always be there.(in theory!)

Id have doubts that the vets fees are anything other than the routine vaccinations,teeth check and maybe allowing for the odd scope/blood test - Id wager theres pretty substantial small print somewhere that wouldnt cover anything like operations. Mind you though - if they are advertising ALL fees,they are leaving themselves open to all kinds of trouble.....

What gets me is these places that take horses from yards, and IMMEDIATELY start trying to say they have problems and implying the old place hasnt looked after it properly/hasnt ridden it properly/its not fit/its feet are terrible etc etc etc. I dotn see why trainers have to have this little bit of one upanship all the time...
 
It makes them feel that tiny bit superior, Truds!

From my experience, I'd say probably as little as 40% if not less, of owners pay up on time. You'd be amazed if you saw the length of time it can take to get money out of some people - and that wouldn't be uncommon.
 
I know - p'raps thats why i dont get it - I dont have too much time for people with attitudes like that!!! (too much "it was in a terrible state when I got it, but look at it now....." from do-gooders who have over fed and ruined horses I think!!)

As for paying (by the way - I bet I wouldnt!! LOL) - that is a huge bugbear of mine - (and Im glad to know Im good at something - I usually paid my bills within a week of getting it!!) No-one pays up on time if they can avoid it - it a ferking nightmare trying to get people to hand over money for services recieved!!! Ive done my share of debt chasing for work,and I have nothing but sympathy for the people who do it full time. Its a horrible job, though I do reckon Ive heard every excuse in the book now....

If we KNOW the money is coming in, we could do so much more, but with our line of work, it isnt really possible. I should thing it ought to be fairly easy to set up a DD for the basic monthly amount and then bill for extras on top?? TBH - if I get another horse, I think Id prefer to do it like that - at least then you know whats coming out when !!!
 
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For those who wanted to know;

Kevin Prendergast (Ross On Wye) was the £99 a week trainer, which was basic fee's. Farrier and Vet at cost, as per transport.

It's also a term the horse must be rated over 65 and if the horse drops to under 65 they revert to normal rates.

It's merely to attract better horses. The rates are for the remainder of 1999 and have to be paid 3 months in advance.

Interesting approach one would say, but one worth taking I'm sure.
 
Well, I'm all for trainers using some initiative to attract new horses and owners. They are a business like any other. Good luck to Kevin Prendergast, I hope it works out for him, his horses and his new owners!
 
Peter Bowen,the genius from West Wales is £900,plus gallops,vets, travel etc. A long way from home but well worth it IMO.
 
Gallop fees are £50 ( if you find these useful ,shoes x 2 are usually £100,Travel expenses about £200 ,Equine spa £90 );)
 
I must admit paying gallop fees came as a big shock to me when my horse was trained in Lambourn. When Brendan Powell had his own gallops when he was based near Winchester you get very use to it being all inclusive. When he moved to Lambourn, seeing the amount disappear from my Weatherbys account every month was a bit galling as Sheik says, it does add up. I am not saying I am against paying it... it's just when you are use to NOT paying this additional charge it does make a difference.
 
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