Would this work ?

A

Ardross

Senior Jockey
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Aug 8, 2007
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We have this weekend the thunderingly naff "British" Champions Day ( what was wrong with the name Champions day ?. The racing is fine enough and Newmarket's total lack of customer friendliness makes it no surprise that it is to be held at Ascot airport . The racenames are incredibly dull and why not a weak apprentices handicap to end the card .

I don't like the concept as I think the splitting away of the 2 year old races a mistake and that the pattern has been unduly disrupted but more and more I wonder whether we are missing a trick in the UK .

We have no Group 1 races over a mile and a half after the KG in this country . After the Arc horse after horse is being considered for all manner of overseas G1 races over that trip . Most of which however are either too weak to attract the best e.g the Premio Roma or far away and run on very fast ground .

Why not a Group 1 over a mile and a half to end the season in the UK in early November ? The race would hardly detract from the Arc but would be a proper end to the season and allow horses to stay in Europe for a finale over the trip rather than having to go abroad. For a while in the late 1960s the flat season ended with the Vernons Sprint at Haydock but it was moved as Haydock kept getting abandoned. That would be unlikely at Donny and as the burgeoning attendances for The Leger meeting and for York all year we know to turn up in Yorkshire.

Perhaps £250,000 could be spared from British Champions Day ?
 
I quite liked the "Future Champions" day last weekend. While we were looking at the potential champions of next year, we were reminded of racing's origins in long distance races with the Cesarawitch. I'm looking forward to Champions Day.

As a matter of interest, if they did run a 1m4f race at the meeting, who would run in it after the Arc?
 
I like the new format. Its very important the 2yo races stay at Newmarket. The pattern would not allow a 12f race in the UK at this time of year. Look at the trouble they had getting the go ahead to change the dates of establishid races for the new Champions Day.
 
At the expense of two of those named running in the Champion Stakes? No thanks.
 
Who would bother showing up for £250k in Nov (in a potential bog at time of year)? When you can run for a handy $3m in the BC Turf, or go to Japan and run for real money.
 
There's enough 10-12f Group 1's for UK horses to aim at at this time of year as it is - Northern Dancer, Canadian International, Clement Hirsch, Arc, Cox Plate, Champion Stakes, Breeders Cup Turf/FM Turf, HK Vase/Cup, Caulfield Cup, Japan Cup etc.

British racing needs to sort it's own problems out before inventing new ones - the prize money issue isn't helped by pumping a small fortune into the QEII and the Champion Stakes.

Who gains from increasing the prize money of the Champion Stakes?

The US horses aren't going to come as they can't race on lasix, there's maybe 4 or 5 who could be competitive and none of them have come.

The Aussie horses won't come as it clashes with the Spring Carnival

It's the lead up to the HK International meeting so no danger of the HK horses coming over and the same is true of the Japanese with the QEII Cup and Japan Cup's coming up in the next couple of months.


Britain would be far better off trying to attract the worlds best to the only meeting in the UK that anyone actually recognises as being genuinely World Class - the Royal meeting. Swap the prize money of the Champion Stakes and the Prince of Wales' Stakes round and make the POW a 3yo+ race ala the Cox Plate in Australia and then see how it goes.

We've seen what Ascot can do with the Global Sprint Challenge legs and the behind the scenes world they've done down in Australia and in the Far East and they've attracted some of the best sprinters in the world in recent years, also some of the US's most precocious 2yos.

I'd love to see a Derby winner drop back to 10f 2 or 3 weeks later to take on his elders at the Royal Meeting - think of the PR Racing For Change could get out of that.

Martin
 
Ardross said:
Nathaniel , Workforce, Reliable Man , Snow Fairy and who knows even Danedream ...
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as they were supposed to, or did, run in the Arc, then it would be very soon for all of them to be running again for a relatively small pot. Make it a million quid race and it would be different but then that might effect the quality of the Arc.
 
I do hope that sort this day out. At the moment it is rag bag of cherry picked races tied up with a bow and for the large part being run at the wrong point in the season.

All show and no substance. Frankel will save them from embarrassment and it will be hailed as a glorious success… why then do I feel like cutting my throat.:(
 
They would be five weeks apart cantoris and Donny is very seldom a bog nowadays after the work done on the track .

Why IS would you want to trek halfway across the world for those races if there was a valuable alternative at home and at least the season would end with a proper race .

Steve your comments just about sum up how I feel about this new Champions Day- the new end of the season programme is horribly unbalanced due to the horse trading between Ascot and Newmarket .

Why could we not just have upgraded the Challenge , Pride and Jockey Club Cup and left the end of the year otherwise as it was ?
 
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Ardross said:
Why could we not just have upgraded the Challenge , Pride and Jockey Club Cup and left the end of the year otherwise as it was ?
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They are sub standard races not worthy of consideration for upgrading. As for a five week gap between the Arc are your proposed race in Doncaster. Why would connections of any horse worth its salt want to run in that race rather than massive pots abroad especially the Breeders Cup. No horse going to the US would show up and no Arc winner would ever show up. So what exactly would be the point? Would we call it "Prix Consolation le Arc".
 
I agree with Martin.

As an end of season finale - why not the same sort of mixed card that heralds the end of the jumps season? A couple of decent group races and a couple of graded jumps races?
 
bad idea

some horses are over the top in the Arc, just imagine one month later

the ground would be very soft most of the years and people has the Bc and Japan cup with much more money than that
 
simmo said:
I agree with Martin.

As an end of season finale - why not the same sort of mixed card that heralds the end of the jumps season? A couple of decent group races and a couple of graded jumps races?
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But an "end of season finale" is the wrong time for a meeting of champions. As suny mentions many have completely gone by now in this country. Only those that have specifically been left for the end of the season will excel. It's a shambles for the pattern and the way racing in this country is shaped.

If you have a day like this it needs to come much earlier.
 
I must admit, I enjoyed future Champions Day and despite my reservations about the Middle Park being on the same day as the Dewhurst, I thought it worked well. My only issue was sticking the bloody Cesarewitch on the same card.

The BHA will never get this right, there are too many clashes to enable them to have a full days programme which attracts the top European horses but Leger weekend is the most appropriate for the older horses and last weekend for the two year olds.
 
Gamla Stan said:
I must admit, I enjoyed future Champions Day and despite my reservations about the Middle Park being on the same day as the Dewhurst, I thought it worked well. My only issue was sticking the bloody Cesarewitch on the same card.

The BHA will never get this right, there are too many clashes to enable them to have a full days programme which attracts the top European horses but Leger weekend is the most appropriate for the older horses and last weekend for the two year olds.
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Nothing wrong with the 2yo races being at this time of the season. This is when future champions should be showcased, but the Dewhurst and the Middle Park on the same day!... I would honestly like to shoot the people responsible for this.
 
I thought the same 12 months ago but really don't think any horses on Saturday would have credibly ran in both even if they were 2-3 weeks apart.

We should make the most of our 2yo races, they are stronger than the French races. Bar the QE2, the French have the better older horses races on their champions day.
 
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SteveM said:
But an "end of season finale" is the wrong time for a meeting of champions. As suny mentions many have completely gone by now in this country. Only those that have specifically been left for the end of the season will excel. It's a shambles for the pattern and the way racing in this country is shaped.

If you have a day like this it needs to come much earlier.
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Which is why a mixed card a la Sandown would be a reasonable idea. IIRC that card contains 2 flat Group 3's, a high class, but not top class Gd3 Hcp, a high class Gd2 Chase and a couple of listed races?

Which makes it ideal for a switch of emphasis from jumps to flat. Nov at Donny would be about a switchover of emphasis, not about attracting the best horses in the world to Yorkshire in late autumn. Which doesn't mean that it could not be regarded as an "end of season finale".
 
Instead it would be an end of season damp squib? I think mixed cards have their place but the NH season finishes at Aintree for me. After that I switch off and Betfred day is a decent card but it doesn't signify anything in particular to my mind.
 
I would run the middle park and chevelly on the same day
ad 2 weeks later run the dewhurst and fillies mile both over 7f


and would send the rockfell to the chevely and middle park day
 
In answer to the query on the new race Ardross the current BC Turf is worth around £1m to the winner, in addition to the added prestige of winning one of the World's Premier turf races.

Unless you plan marketing the all new race to an International audience it will turn into a soft ground, end of season version of the King George contested by horses who are over the top or aren't good enough to contest the BC Turf, HK Vase or Japan Cup.

Like I say the Autumn season is saturated with top quality races and a far better idea would be to hold any new race in June - not to mention it not clashing with other major racing events such as the Breeders Cup, Japan Cup, Melbourne Spring Carnival etc.

The Australian 3yos have only just turned 3 yet one is ante-post favourite for the Cox Plate in a little over a weeks time - IMO the best option would be to up the prize money of the Prince of Wales' Stakes at the Royal meeting and opening it up to 3yos (obviously with the appropriate weight allowances).
 
Irish Stamp said:
In answer to the query on the new race Ardross the current BC Turf is worth around £1m to the winner, in addition to the added prestige of winning one of the World's Premier turf races.

Unless you plan marketing the all new race to an International audience it will turn into a soft ground, end of season version of the King George contested by horses who are over the top or aren't good enough to contest the BC Turf, HK Vase or Japan Cup.

Like I say the Autumn season is saturated with top quality races and a far better idea would be to hold any new race in June - not to mention it not clashing with other major racing events such as the Breeders Cup, Japan Cup, Melbourne Spring Carnival etc.

The Australian 3yos have only just turned 3 yet one is ante-post favourite for the Cox Plate in a little over a weeks time - IMO the best option would be to up the prize money of the Prince of Wales' Stakes at the Royal meeting and opening it up to 3yos (obviously with the appropriate weight allowances).
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The Breeders Cup Turf is frequently like a Group 2 - Red Rocks and Dangerous Midge for example . Also you do not take into account the impact on a horse of having to travel very long distances at the end of a long season .
 
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