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The "Let's Have A Heated Debate Series" - Episode 1: Betting Discipline

Ian_Davies

Ian_Davies

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I managed to catch up with everything last night, consequently, ahead of Saturday's 48-hour decs this morning (I work two days ahead and adjust for going changes, NR, betting movement etc subsequent to that) I've got a bit of time this morning.

I thought I'd discuss discipline in betting in a new periodic debating series I thought I'd have a bash at getting off the ground.

I'm 62 and I'm trying to remember a time in my life when I ever chased losses on a day.

And I honestly can't.

I don't consider myself any great paragon of virtue, but I've always identified bets and stakes (if I can get particular prices) and stuck to that plan throughout the day.

Whether I'm having a winning day or not has no impact on this - the only changes would be a reaction to a change in going or fresh information reaching me.

And I just don't get why some others evidently can't simply let the Sun go down on a losing day then go again the next time.

It helps if you keep records and know you're well in front over time, I guess - it helps you retain a detached, relaxed, perspective on short-term loss.

It probably also helps if you don't need to win that day to know where the next meal is coming from.

But, honestly, I kicked the notion of chasing into touch over 40 years ago and when I read people here, some even older than me, saying "I need to learn more discipline," I honestly think: "How old are you? How long have you been betting? How much more time exactly do you need to complete this learning process? You should have nailed this last century! Have a serious F-ing word with yourself!"

I was initially going to stick this in my blog, but there are lots of people here with interesting insights into staking and betting discipline, so I thought I'd float the idea of a specific debating subject series.

Anyway, betting - different things work for different people, there really is more than one way to crack an egg.

I'd be fascinated to read any personal insights in response.
 
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Ian_Davies said:
It's a fair cop.

I'd still be interested to see if it provokes (and it is intended to be provocative) many responses.
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Explain to me how someone with compulsion could respond to that. If a pioneer tried to talk to me about their lack of understanding of drinking, I’d tell them to go f%*& themselves.
 
Slim said:
Explain to me how someone with compulsion could respond to that. If a pioneer tried to talk to me about their lack of understanding of drinking, I’d tell them to go f%*& themselves.
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Well imo, that's a fair point.

We all have compulsive urges, though, don't we?

And surely we all fight those urges with varying degrees of success?

You justifiably critique others for the reasoning behind their betting from time to time, so why can't compulsive betting be critiqued too?

Because one isn't an illness and the other is?

Any behaviour that impacts negatively on us could be argued to be a form of illness.

But whether it is or not I see no issue in identifying a harmful pattern and trying to correct it.

I get why my posting reads as self congratulatory but as stated I don't regard myself as a paragon of virtue and this time frame thing genuinely puzzles me.

Having a bet today because you're losing today and this is a bet you wouldn't have if you were winning today deserves, at least, to be called out and challenged, doesn't it?

Or maybe it's an addiction - like alcoholism (and as a non drinker that's something I know basically nothing about tbh) - in a way betting too much on horses who can't win in extended places races isn't?

These are honest questions, btw.

Thanks for at least responding - I hope others will too.
 
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I was told, in my first year betting, that JP McManus had once said that you should never chase losses on the day. Walk away.

I've always held that advice (apocryphal or not), to heart.
 
Slim said:
Explain to me how someone with compulsion could respond to that. If a pioneer tried to talk to me about their lack of understanding of drinking, I’d tell them to go f%*& themselves.
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My next day off I'll show you.
 
I’ve seen more problem gamblers than is good for my soul. I’ve seen bookmakers take advantage of people who, if betting were an exam, would fail it. In general, people are ill-disciplined. Some drink too much, some chain-smoke, some smoke weed, and now there’s the latest craze — vape addicts. And don’t get me started on the destruction cocaine and heroin can cause in people’s lives.

Betting is one of the worst of them, and I wouldn’t condescend anyone who struggles with it by saying “why can’t you be like me?” — because they might point out I was twenty minutes late and reeking of beer.
 
I hate losers, they fester in my mind and fill me with doom and gloom. Can’t change it so I go with the flow. Gravitate towards the shorter end of the market so I don’t have to suffer a string of losers waiting for a long shot to come in.

Don’t have much trouble chasing losses, but do often lack discipline at the other end throwing money away after winners (it’s their money, you know :eek:)
 
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Slim said:
I’ve seen more problem gamblers than is good for my soul. I’ve seen bookmakers take advantage of people who, if betting were an exam, would fail it. In general, people are ill-disciplined. Some drink too much, some chain-smoke, some smoke weed, and now there’s the latest craze — vape addicts. And don’t get me started on the destruction cocaine and heroin can cause in people’s lives.

Betting is one of the worst of them, and I wouldn’t condescend anyone who struggles with it by saying “why can’t you be like me?” — because they might point out I was twenty minutes late and reeking of beer.
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Love this (not that you asked or necessarily care if I do).

My genuine apologies to anyone offended by my comments on this thread.

I have a very simplistic view of life - those most favourably disposed towards me have even been to known to say there's a "genius" (I am NOT a genius. Stephen Hawking was a genius, I wasn't fit to lace his boots, intellectually, I consider myself of no more than slightly above average intelligence) in my simplicity, those least favourably disposed towards me say there is a colossal ignorance and sheer stupidity in my simplicity.

I am also very insular - I just look out for me and mine - hence there are many things I don't understand because thankfully they have never touched me.

Like addictlon.

For example, I don't drink or smoke for the simple reasons both are expensive and can shorten your life and I love both my money and life in equal measure!

And I avoid compulsive betting and chasing losses for the same reason - it's not a winning betting strategy and I bet to win and modestly improve the quality of my life.

I don't think any of this makes me better than anyone else - not least because these are life rules I don't find it hard to deploy.

That's where I'm coming from with this.

Maybe it makes me staggeringly naive, stupid and lacking in empathy.

But none of those qualities can kill me or destroy my life.

To me, all aspects of betting are fair game for debate - from being sucked in by the extended places when the maths is against you in impenetrable handicaps, to backing a horse you had no intention of backing at dawn because you're losing in the course of some man made 24-hour time frame.

Anyway, as stated I didn't intend to offend, patronise or be condescending - apologies to anyone who are interpreting my words that way.
 
I turn 60 at the end of November and am betting since I was 15 yrs old, started betting when the old man brought me for a shandy in the blacklion in Inchicore if I had listened to him, had I taken on board what he was trying to tell me I may have turned out a much better punter.
I reckon I lost a lot the first 35 years and am only clawing back a small amount of that over the past 10 years.

Ian, I know you mean no harm but not everyone would be as educated or have the strong will power you had when you started off punting, with most it is a gradual thing that sneaks up on you and then having a bet becomes part of everyday living.

BTW
on a lighter note my old mans number one rule....

never ever back a horse you fancy to win at Cheltenham before Christmas and he never did. His thinking was you can't keep a horse 100%fit for three or four months
 
luckyme said:
Ian, I know you mean no harm but not everyone would be as educated or have the strong will power you had when you started off punting, with most it is a gradual thing that sneaks up on you and then having a bet becomes part of everyday living.
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I probably did it a bit in my late teens, but I was always a nerd and a plodder, kept handwritten betting records, hated losing so it didn't feel like a case of having strong will power, it came naturally to someone who was painfully tight with money!

But we are all different - if everyone was like me the economy would collapse overnight, the hospitality industry certainly would, no one would ever go out!

Thanks for the insights.
 
I certainly know now when to stop chasing, or pack up when nicely in front. It was definitely not like that when I was in my 20s !
Nowadays my big fault is lack of bottle conviction however you want to frame it.
It's pretty rare now I look at a race + say to myself " This Wins ".
One such occasion happened yesterday. Ran at Ludlow. I have a figure for my maximum bet. Could've got 4s the night before, won at 3/1.
No. I didn't back the c*** !
 
The only time I chase losses is when I’m in the pub - drink impairs judgement, we all know that. However, when the angle you’ve seen that “no one else could possibly have seen” romps in at 20/1 - and you’re pissed - well, that is a marvellous feeling.

Betting apps are what makes it easier to bet in a pub. I drink in company, but not always. There are great nights to be had, drinking Guinness alone, smashing the tricast at Newcastle, with the three highest-drawn horses in the sprints. The app makes betting waaaay too accessible.

That said, although I bet a lot more these days, I also win a bit more. I rarely bet more that £25 a week, and I know my strengths; I’m even standing up to my weaknesses these days! But the betting is still only a few quid here and there. And that’s what keeps it running away from me.
 
Slim said:
I’ve seen more problem gamblers than is good for my soul. I’ve seen bookmakers take advantage of people who, if betting were an exam, would fail it. In general, people are ill-disciplined. Some drink too much, some chain-smoke, some smoke weed, and now there’s the latest craze — vape addicts. And don’t get me started on the destruction cocaine and heroin can cause in people’s lives.

Betting is one of the worst of them, and I wouldn’t condescend anyone who struggles with it by saying “why can’t you be like me?” — because they might point out I was twenty minutes late and reeking of beer.
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There's a line in one of my favourite films, Red River, delivered by Groot (Walter Brennan) when he catches one of the cowhands stealing sugar from the chuck wagon: a sweet tooth is almost as bad as having a whiskey tongue or liking a woman.

For 'a sweet tooth' you could substitute 'having to bet' and remove the word 'almost'.

Almost all of us have our own weaknesses.
 
Desert Orchid said:
There's a line in one of my favourite films, Red River, delivered by Groot (Walter Brennan) when he catches one of the cowhands stealing sugar from the chuck wagon: a sweet tooth is almost as bad as having a whiskey tongue or liking a woman.

For 'a sweet tooth' you could substitute 'having to bet' and remove the word 'almost'.

Almost all of us have our own weaknesses.
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Conveniently ignoring the fact he is actually replying to Slim, as thread OP I am claiming personal credit for sucking Maurice back in.

I expect some sort of Nobel Prize at the absolute minimum for this.
 
I only emerged from the mines to tip the shite pail over a ledge. I don't mind checking in on the odd general discussion but I'm as good as done with races for now.

The Hennessy might drag me back in.
 
A lack of impulse control and gambling are probs not a good mix, same as other things such as booze.

I waver at times but I tend to keep a grip on mine, I certainly like a drink but smoking or drugs have never interested me, tried and went nah.


I've a got a pal who's an alchy and when in the drying out clinic and they tried to get to if there was some reason for his drinking, his response was simply "I just like a drink"
 
Personally rather than setting a target to win I set an amount that I am prepared to loose and never go over that amount different amounts for different circumstances ie having daily dabbles, big days on TV or actually going to race meetings. This has served me well for many years. 😎. I should stress that I am a small punter and for me it is not all about winning money, lovely when it happens but just as happy when I don’t loose 😉
 

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