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Kempton Park, "change" and "tradition"

Ian_Davies

Ian_Davies

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May 7, 2023
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Hampshire
I've got fond memories of Kempton Park.

The now-defunct Turf Flat course with the Chute for sprints bisecting the course, the Jubilee course etc.

The opening October Jumps meeting, often bathed in early autumn sunshine, I've also been to the King George meeting a few times and been lucky enough to be a guest in a private box.

And more recently I've attended many AW meetings, mostly Wednesday evenings, when I've often been fortunate to again be a guest, this time in the Owners & Trainers.

If they close Kempton Park, I will undoubtedly miss it.

But I say that having not set foot in the place for well over a year now.

And that's the thing, the joint is all but deserted a lot of the time.

I saw Rebels Romance run and win there a couple of years ago - there were only a handful of us surrounding the paddock to watch him walk round and even fewer of us in the stands to see him forge clear.

It seems like everyone in racing is up in arms in the racing media at the prospect of closure this week, but how many of them actually go there regularly?

As people get older, I think many get in the grip of a "Tradition Syndrome."

They really don't like change, the notion of tradition becomes their God and their definition of tradition is how racing was when they first got interested.

But racecourses, races and race titles have come and gone for centuries - nothing stays the same forever and arguably nor should it.

I try to embrace change and live in the moment, not the past.

But it isn't easy.

It's only in recent years that I've stopped calling the Paddy Power Gold Cup the Mackeson, the Coral Gold Cup the Hennessy, the December Gold Cup the Massey-Ferguson and Saturday's Silver Cup the SGB.

And I miss racecourses like Towcester, Folkestone and Jumps racing at Nottingham and Wolverhampton.

Plus on the Flat, I miss the old Metropolitan Handicap, snaking across Epsom Downs, the Royal Lodge being on Ascot's Old Mile, the Futurity being on Town Moor's round mile and the Champion Stakes being "Across The Flat" at Newmarket.

But to dwell on the past is to fail to get the most out of the present - on balance, I like Champions' Day at Ascot, the fourth day at the Cheltenham Festival is fine by me and I don't mind the 1,000 Guineas being on a Sunday.

I don't know what the future holds for Kempton Park and my preference would be for it to survive.

But I think racing and the Racing Calendar would adapt to cope with its demise, so I don't really share the daily consternation I've been seeing this week.

What say you, dear fellow forumite?
 
I say make the most of this years King George at Kempton because there wont be many more to come. The way the Jockey Club have broken the news along with their plans for Cheltenham and Aintree scream to me that they are gonna look after the jewels in their crown and the rest will have to survive the best they can. The telling line for me was "The agreement with developer Redrow to build on Kempton Park was made in the best interests of racing"

I actually wrote a piece about Kempton and a couple of other tracks just a few days before the news broke on the "TeesidePark racecourse" thread further down the list. I listed some of the numbers regarding attendances at those tracks and they make for sorry reading.
I am a traditionalist Ian and still call races the Hennessey, the Schweppes, the Massey Ferguson etc etc and would love things to stay as they always have been. But as we all know, things change, although for me, not always for the better, and it looks like it is time up for Kempton.
And what is left at Kempton these days ? Apart from the knowledgeable lads on here, although some will not know, how many races run at Kempton aside from the Christmas meeting, can people name. The only other one they might have got in the past was the Racing Post chase and that has gone now. I think it has changed its title five or six times since. But under whatever guise it is run under, it is not exactly a crowd puller. For the past three years it has attracted around three and a half thousand people and in 2022 there was a thousand less at two and a half thousand. Dismal ! Embarrassing !

I am of the opinion that Redrow would be mad not to take up the option and build on it. Apparently they can go to up to 3,000 new homes. Bearing in mind where Kempton is situated with its links to the M25 and the railways, it is an absolute no brainer for me.
 
Boxing day is always a day tinged with sadness and remembrance for me anyway. An old friend of mine more like a father to me who I used to watch the racing with regularly at least a couple of Saturdays out of every month passed away. Boxing day he used to refer to as "our day" it was our Christmas day and our tradition every year to enjoy the racing and a few drinks together . Since he passed in 2019 I don't think I've watched the meeting in fact it's as rare as hens teeth that I'll watch any meeting these days in front of a T.V I'll either stream races I've bet in or catch up on replays later in the day. Boxing day I now tend to put my bets on on the morning and then take the daughter out shopping which has now become "Our day" .

Like you say Ian I've never been there and for me I used to like the Easter meeting there on turf I now like the London series finals day and of course the Christmas meeting. The Lanzarote, The Christmas Hurdle and what used to be the Racing post trophy chase ? Are all races I have fond memories of . The King George itself will be a completely different test run anywhere else that's for sure, the stats boys will be in tears. Do I remember them running it at Sandown one year ? That seemed to take the gloss off.

Like you say if it happens it happens and we move on. I dare say in the coming years we'll see a lot more of our favourite courses go.
 
Quixall Crossett said:
I am a traditionalist Ian and still call races the Hennessey, the Schweppes, the Massey Ferguson etc etc and would love things to stay as they always have been.
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I used to have that exact same attitude, QC.

But I came to realise that my idea of what is "traditional" would not be the same as that of someone born 50 or more years before me.

If things still stayed "as they have always been," we'd still be in caves, according to Stone Age man, or at the dawn of time and "The Big Bang," according to scientists.

I think many of us grow up and, when young and first introduced to things, assume they will always be that way.

But no generation has the divine right to freeze time in their particular period - it took me many years to realise and accept that and I don't think some people ever fully accept it.

But since I've accepted and embraced the notion, I've actually been happier - I think of racing as ever-evolving and simply "different" (as opposed to "worse") now than when I was younger.

As originally stated, it would be nice if Kempton Park survived, but I doubt it will and I think racing will mourn, then adapt and move on.
 
Ian_Davies said:
I used to have that exact same attitude, QC.

But I came to realise that my idea of what is "traditional" would not be the same as that of someone born 50 or more years before me.

If things still stayed "as they have always been," we'd still be in caves, according to Stone Age man, or at the dawn of time and "The Big Bang," according to scientists.

I think many of us grow up and, when young and first introduced to things, assume they will always be that way.

But no generation has the divine right to freeze time in their particular period - it took me many years to realise and accept that and I don't think some people ever fully accept it.

But since I've accepted and embraced the notion, I've actually been happier - I think of racing as ever-evolving and simply "different" (as opposed to "worse") now than when I was younger.

As originally stated, it would be nice if Kempton Park survived, but I doubt it will and I think racing will mourn, then adapt and move on.
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I think you have me a bit wrong mate. I am not a traditionalist in everything, far from it. But old race names i am definitely guilty as charged. Take the previously mentioned "Racing Post chase" for instance. Can you tell me what it has been called for the past six or seven years without looking it up? I very much doubt you can. I certainly couldnt and was surprised when i saw the list.

I defintely dont assume everything will "always be that way" That would just be sheer madness. But what i do think is that change isnt always for the best.

You sat racing is ever evolving. I say it is dying a slow and painful death. We have absolutely nobody in charge who is bright enough, capable enough or with the foresight to move the sport forward in these very challenging times. All i ever hear is "get the younger brigade involved". And that would be wonderful if it happened. but in my opinion, it is never going to happen. Sadly. There are too many other things for the young ones to get involved with these days, to compete in, and more importantly, to spend their money on.

But back to the topic. It may just be me, although my two coffee mates both agreed yesterday, the quotes from the Jockey Club just read as a nudge and reminder to Redrow that they better get their skates on and start planning. To me it seems as though the Jockey Club are eager for Redrow to take over. The Jockey Club, and racing, NEEDS the money.
 
Danny said:
Boxing day is always a day tinged with sadness and remembrance for me anyway. An old friend of mine more like a father to me who I used to watch the racing with regularly at least a couple of Saturdays out of every month passed away. Boxing day he used to refer to as "our day" it was our Christmas day and our tradition every year to enjoy the racing and a few drinks together . Since he passed in 2019 I don't think I've watched the meeting in fact it's as rare as hens teeth that I'll watch any meeting these days in front of a T.V I'll either stream races I've bet in or catch up on replays later in the day. Boxing day I now tend to put my bets on on the morning and then take the daughter out shopping which has now become "Our day" .

Like you say Ian I've never been there and for me I used to like the Easter meeting there on turf I now like the London series finals day and of course the Christmas meeting. The Lanzarote, The Christmas Hurdle and what used to be the Racing post trophy chase ? Are all races I have fond memories of . The King George itself will be a completely different test run anywhere else that's for sure, the stats boys will be in tears. Do I remember them running it at Sandown one year ? That seemed to take the gloss off.

Like you say if it happens it happens and we move on. I dare say in the coming years we'll see a lot more of our favourite courses go.
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It was sad to read about your mate Danny. Christmas is that time of year when i think we all remember the ones we have lost in the past.

And yes, the King George at Sandown was "different" but it still didnt stop One Man winning it on a track that many thought may not suit. But wherever they run it when Kempton has gone, we will get used to it.
 
I'd like Kempton to survive too.

Don't like the idea of running their flagship meeting in a quagmire at Sandown.

Ascot would probably make the most sense but I can't see the Jockey Club moving it to a non JCR
 
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Quixall Crossett said:
Take the previously mentioned "Racing Post chase" for instance. Can you tell me what it has been called for the past six or seven years without looking it up?
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I just LOVE discussing racing and betting with you, QC, we have so many similar frames of reference and we agree far more than we disagree (not that disagreeing is inherently bad).

No, I can't remember subsequent sponsor names (without checking do Coral sponsor it now, or at least did this year?) but I can remember when it was the "Yellow Pages" (they also sponsored the now Adonis Hurdle on the card) and I say that as a former Racing Post employee who ponced a staff freebie there one year (Remittance Man drifted from 7/4 to 7/4 - what a gift - before winning the Pendil by 15 that day).

I totally get where you're coming from - your view used to 💯% be my view on this, and tbh a part of me still agrees with you and probably always will.

And yes, why would the Jockey Club even resurrect the subject unless they wanted rid (because they need funding) and hence wanted to start preparing the industry to brace themselves for it.
 
You’d have thought they’d know better, but the Jockey Club have joined the throng of those blinded by the flashing pounds signs in front of their eyes. “In the best interest of racing” to have many sacks of gold in the cellar rather than a fine racecourse near to the main centre of population. I don’t think so.

You’d have thought that with such an asset on their hands it was “in the best interest of racing” to exploit it. Yes, attendance has been poor, but so it was at many courses who have worked hard and successfully to turn that around in innovative ways. No such effort from the Jockey Club - fie to them. It’s no use wringing hands now, the deed is done and is in Redrow’s hands, not the Jockey Club. The best that can be hoped for is that the Newbury model can be negotiated and the racecourse retained as the centrepiece. Works well at Newbury.
 
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Boxing Day at Kempton is the home of my blurred memories of some racing ideal.
I remember going there as a child one snowy day, standing around a brazier, warming my hands. I do believe the adults were smoking cigars, but that could be a 'Boxing Day' embellishment.

But I guess I fall into the camp of those who love the thought but don't actually go any more. So, if Kempton goes the way of one of my other childhood tracks, Folkestone, I can't say I did anything to help it keep going.

Funnily enough, my favourite memory of Folkestone has nothing to do with racing. It was the afternoon of Tuesday 21 July 1981, the afternoon when Bob Willis bowled out the Australians at Headingley. As news of wickets falling began to spread, we all crowded into the bar to watch the Miracle taking place.
 
barjon said:
You’d have thought they’d know better, but the Jockey Club have joined the throng of those blinded by the flashing pounds signs in front of their eyes. “In the best interest of racing” to have many sacks of gold in the cellar rather than a fine racecourse near to the main centre of population. I don’t think so.

You’d have thought that with such an asset on their hands it was “in the best interest of racing” to exploit it. Yes, attendance has been poor, but so it was at many courses who have worked hard and successfully to turn that around in innovative ways. No such effort from the Jockey Club - fie to them. It’s no use wringing hands now, the deed is done and is in Redrow’s hands, not the Jockey Club. The best that can be hoped for is that the Newbury model can be negotiated and the racecourse retained as the centrepiece. Works well at Newbury.
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Every man and his dog know why attendances are falling mate. COST !!!!!!!
Yes, attendances are holding up at the "big" meetings (except Cheltenham of course), but go the the "smaller" tracks during the week and it is a sorry sight. But there is one course that has bucked the trend. And it is all down to cost. Last week i got my usual email from Hexham telling me that for the 11th year in a row, they are keeping the admission price the same. And they still have concessions for old twats like me. If i book just a day in advance it will cost me a tenner to get in. And its only £12 if i pay at the gate. And £12 for everyone else who books in advance. And you only have to do it a day or so beforehand.
And thats why they are doing well and getting four figure crowds at EVERY meeting. There will be many tracks in the UK who wished they could do that.
 
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My two cents on this is, Kempton Park should stay as a racecourse, not as housing estates.

As a person who had a whole football stadium be recently removed (Buckingham Road, Aylesbury), I would have loved to have seen what it was in its glory. Traditions need to be maintained but be put into a modern twist, yes the BHA and the jockey club is trying to do that but traditions must be maintained, I saw a video that itv did about the Epsom Derby, and most of it was saying about putting it back on a Wednesday, the middle of the working week. I’m of the opinion that Saturdays is too cluttered these days, football, rugby etc. Cheltenham is trying to put the gold cup day on Saturday, I actually liked having it on a Friday.

I feel what needs to be done to maintain traditions but a modern twist:

What Epsom did for next years Derby, is a good idea. Really aggressive move which was not really seen in previous years, having the Coronation Cup and the Derby on the same day, that would massive increase Saturday attendance. But, Lower the ticket prices or offer discounted tickets would help greatly, however I do understand gate receipts is necessary for the courses. I feel what also needs to be done is copy the Japanese in terms of horse competition, you would see in the Japan Cup list that 2005-2025, all the winners from 06 to 24 were Japanese, that’s because they have a MASSIVE breeding campaign and most of the horse farms are located in Hokkaido. Also to embrace the wackiness of the Horse games that make the popularity of horse racing sky rocket in Japan, and yes I’m on about Umamusume Pretty Derby and we should take advantage of in the UK. Horse Racing as a concept is wacky and the problem is, the UK/IRE is stubborn to change, yes change can be good and bad, but some changes are needed.

That’s only my two cents on it.
 
WandererSkyLight said:
What Epsom did for next years Derby, is a good idea.
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If they really want to resurrect The Derby imo they should adopt the USA model.

Aidan O'Brien simply couldn't do what he does if that happened.

Qualifying races, points for final finishing position in qualifiers, and they nearly always end up with a maximum field for the Kentucky Derby.

No lightly-raced horses flanked by loads of tactical pacemakers - if you don't get the points in qualifying you can't run.

Reducing The Derby in trip to the more relevant modern commercial distance of 1m2f would help too, but that's a separate argument and one traditionalists of plural generations would oppose.
 
Quixall Crossett said:
Every man and his dog know why attendances are falling mate. COST !!!!!!!
Yes, attendances are holding up at the "big" meetings (except Cheltenham of course), but go the the "smaller" tracks during the week and it is a sorry sight. But there is one course that has bucked the trend. And it all down to cost. Last week i got my usual email from Hexham telling me that for the 11th year in a row, they are keeping the admission price the same. And they still have concessions for old twats like me. If i book just a day in advance it will cost me a tenner to get in. And its only £12 if i pay at the gate. And £12 for everyone else who books in advance. And you only have to do it a day or so beforehand.
And thats why they are doing well and getting four figure crowds at EVERY meeting. there will be many tracks in the UK who wished they could do that.
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Aye, Cheltenham are going to price themselves out of the game if they’re not careful (beware the blossoming of the Irish festivals). On the other hand, fed on the TV diet it’s easy to forget the powerful experience of being at the races. The magnificence of the horses, the thunder of the hooves, the excitement of the race. I had forgotten that. We gave up our Newbury membership some years ago (away too much in the winter), but rejoined this season since not going away and I can just about stagger around for at least the first three races. Took our granddaughter this time - she can’t stop going on about it. That’s all you’ve got to do - get people there and they’ll want more.
 
I used to work down the road, traffic is gridlocked enough in that area without another shitty housing estate of x hundred houses
 
Change is seldom about change for the sake of change. Where businesses are concerned it is even more seldom.

99% of the time it is about money.

The Kempton situation is the same. Money will talk and money will prevail because for all the verbal and vocal posturing in the media and on forums such as this, the bottom line is what counts.

And the bottom line is money.

Ayr racecourse used to boast swathes of ground where people who couldn't afford the expensive entry charges could get in relatively cheaply, stand around with no enclosures and be ripped off by bookies with vast overrounds. From the grandstand you could see the secondary school that stood around the four-furlong pole. Now you can't see the school (it might now have been rebuilt elsewhere) for the superstore complex.

Ayr will claim it saved the track from closure but there are now only two races per year at Ayr that are worth watching, the Gold Cup in September and the Scottish Grand National in April.

These and every weekend meeting turn into no more than a lad/ladette-fest with pimply young guys kitted out in Next suits that are two sizes too small for them and over-made-up my-big-fat--curvy-bride 'women' trying to outdrink them.

It's a very unpleasant day for everybody else.

The stadium - the first all-seater in the UK - where Clydebank FC used to play is now blocks of flats next to a retail centre. My heart sinks every time I pass the site.

But that's what happens.

Money.
 
Ian_Davies said:
If they really want to resurrect The Derby imo they should adopt the USA model.

Aidan O'Brien simply couldn't do what he does if that happened.

Qualifying races, points for final finishing position in qualifiers, and they nearly always end up with a maximum field for the Kentucky Derby.

No lightly-raced horses flanked by loads of tactical pacemakers - if you don't get the points in qualifying you can't run.

Reducing The Derby in trip to the more relevant modern commercial distance of 1m2f would help too, but that's a separate argument and one traditionalists of plural generations would oppose.
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Actually that’s a good idea and one I would like to see, qualifying races
 
"Lucky enough to have been a guest in a private box".

I've been in private boxes and theyvsre absolutely shit. You couldn't hand pick worse people to be stuck in a room with.
 
As for Kempton. Take away two races on the 26th of December and what have you left? Those two races can easily be given to another track, probably Sandown.
 

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