Hennessey/ Coral Gold Cup

Was disappointed with Galia de liteaux tbh I'd be looking for a reason for that performance I thought the ground would be softer when I made the bet but can't really use that as an excuse because she looked to be travelling beautifully then threw in the towel when she's seen out trips longer than this in the past really well. I've been at work so haven't had much time to look at the race properly but I'm thinking may have been a slow pace amd she just hadn't got the gears to quicken. The other 2 did me proud. Broadway Boy and venetias horse would of probably been the last 2 horses I'd have backed and I was surprised to see them fill the places.
 
Place money made it a winning race, but I can't help feeling General En Chef would have been bang there with an experienced British or Irish jockey on board.

I can't remember the last time I saw a professional jumps jockey "call a cab" in a race and Benjamin Gelhay managed it at least twice today.
 
Ian_Davies said:
I can't remember the last time I saw a professional jumps jockey "call a cab" in a race and Benjamin Gelhay managed it at least twice today.
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I noticed that too but I think the horse just ran its race and wasn't good enough.

When you consider the first seven finishers and then the ones that couldn't get competitive, I think it's fair to say it was a serious renewal.
 
Danny said:
Was disappointed with Galia de liteaux tbh I'd be looking for a reason for that performance I thought the ground would be softer when I made the bet but can't really use that as an excuse because she looked to be travelling beautifully then threw in the towel when she's seen out trips longer than this in the past really well. I've been at work so haven't had much time to look at the race properly but I'm thinking may have been a slow pace amd she just hadn't got the gears to quicken. The other 2 did me proud. Broadway Boy and venetias horse would of probably been the last 2 horses I'd have backed and I was surprised to see them fill the places.
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Turned out to be not much of a test (imo) and the first 10 were more or less in line 4 out.
I'd say quite a few were outpaced in the closing stages,which wouldn't be the norm fr this particuular race.
 
Outsider said:
I think the horse was good enough but just didn't stay.
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I'm always open to all possibilities but, given General En Chef was a staying on third in the 3m6f Grand Steeplechase De Paris in the Auteuil mud I think lack of stamina was unlikely to have been his downfall over half a mile shorter yesterday, stronger pace in UK Chases generally notwithstanding.

I like the horse and I'd also love to see Gran Diose and Grandeur Nature get entries in UK handicap chases, though my guess is it's unlikely to happen.
 
Ian_Davies said:
I'm always open to all possibilities but, given General En Chef was a staying on third in the 3m6f Grand Steeplechase De Paris in the Auteuil mud I think lack of stamina was unlikely to have been his downfall over half a mile shorter yesterday, stronger pace in UK Chases generally notwithstanding.

I like the horse and I'd also love to see Gran Diose and Grandeur Nature get entries in UK handicap chases, though my guess is it's unlikely to happen.
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RP have Gemeral En Chef as outpaced in the closimg stages of that race which is not unusual considering the leisurely early pace of French races.
It's also true that their ground conditions are invariably overstated relative to British ones - it's a latitude thing - so I'd query any judgement based on those criteria.
 
You don't have to be female to not much enjoy reading material like that - I've no great love for Paul Nicholls or Dan Skelton, but I don't see why they should be given offensive nicknames.
 
The winner Kandoo Kid has only been raised 6lbs for winning. I reckon that's very lenient.

I also noticed a headline in yesterday's RP bemoaning the race as a poor renewal.

I'll be following the form with hard cash and will be expecting to make money.
 
Depends what you mean by "poor" - no Arkle, Burrough Hill Lad or Denman in it on all known form, but it was a competitive handicap chase with some progressive types and the form could work out well.
 
I didn't read the article (behind a paywall, I think) so don't know what the criteria were but, yes, it's often full of very progressive second-season novices and it's often form I like to follow.
 
Outsider said:
I think the horse was good enough but just didn't stay.
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To me, it was classic non-staying.

The horse came there like the winner but he emptied quicker than a London wallet. I have always seen that as a non-staying sign.
 
I can totally understand how anyone judging the horse's stamina solely on the visuals of that run would come to that conclusion.

But, though they tend to go more steadily early doors in France, the following clip from back in April was over half a mile further on Softer ground and for me the horse plugged on well enough to be third. Game of opinions, though:
 
The first paragraph of the article is visible here:

www.racingpost.com

Lack of quality in Coral Gold Cup a reminder jumps Pattern needs a radical rethink

Absence of top-class performers means Newbury showpiece is a light of former days
www.racingpost.com www.racingpost.com

I don't think there is anything wrong with there not being established G1 horses in the race. When sponsors put up a £250k prize it's then up to connections to try for it which they can do by shrewd placing. (Which makes Nicholls the Kandoo Kid?)

Galway Blaze (sorry Ian) was back in the day when the rating for a top G1 horse was 100. If memory serves (I threw out all my old books when I moved house three years ago) he won off 78 and went up to 88. Without setting foot on the track, by the time the beaten horses had come out and franked the form, GB's rating went up to 100.

Ever Blessed would arguably have won the G1 novice at Aintree but the fall was a blessing in disguise as his mark of something like 138 was preserved and he had the Hennessy won three out.

There's nothing at all wrong with the race as it stands.
 
MisterB said:
I know it's mostly blokes here, but it's still a mixed audience. Please try to not use the c-word, thanks! :thumbsup:
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I realise that you are the moderator and the guy who's done a wonderful job at revamping the forum. But, if you have to smack the bottom of one of the Forums most valuable and longstanding stalwarts for using offensive language then at least refrain from using sexist remarks whilst doing so. Whilst being born a "he" and identifying as a male, fully equipped with a small and... more wrinkly than dangly thing between my legs I retain the right to be as offended by any C-Bomb as much as any female. Not that I am offended, but that has nothing to do with my gender and more to do with the fact that I'm an absolute rogue who has a bit of a potty mouth from time to time himself and see's not much harm in the odd naughty word as long as its not directly aimed at a fellow forumite.

Thankyou.
 
Desert Orchid said:
The winner Kandoo Kid has only been raised 6lbs for winning. I reckon that's very lenient.

I also noticed a headline in yesterday's RP bemoaning the race as a poor renewal.

I'll be following the form with hard cash and will be expecting to make money.
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Why would you see that as lenient Mo ? The race has probably recorded the lowest speed figure in it's history. That's not to say the horses aren't good but it certainly says its a jog and sprint and difficult to assess the overall quality of a performance and how much bearing it'll have on other races. If anything Victorino has put in a terrible round of jumping was in a horrible position and somehow closed the gap massively to finish 3rd. In saying this it was the last horse I'd have backed at Newbury with its prior jumping issues but if anything put in a performance worth noting it was him and if V can find a way to get him jumping via some sort of head gear then he could have a bit in hand. As for the winner who knows but I think 6lb up is about spot on. How would you justify rating him higher Mo when the race didn't begin in earnest until about 4 from home.
 
Danny mate, certain etiquette on forums like this should be universal, however long someone has posted. Yes, Euro is a valued poster, it doesn't and shouldn't mean he's exempt from common courtesy.

It did offend other valued members. That's probably what matters.

I think it's best forumites don't do this in future. I don't think I'm being woke.
 
Danny said:
Why would you see that as lenient Mo ? The race has probably recorded the lowest speed figure in it's history. That's not to say the horses aren't good but it certainly says its a jog and sprint and difficult to assess the overall quality of a performance and how much bearing it'll have on other races. If anything Victorino has put in a terrible round of jumping was in a horrible position and somehow closed the gap massively to finish 3rd. In saying this it was the last horse I'd have backed at Newbury with its prior jumping issues but if anything put in a performance worth noting it was him and if V can find a way to get him jumping via some sort of head gear then he could have a bit in hand. As for the winner who knows but I think 6lb up is about spot on. How would you justify rating him higher Mo when the race didn't begin in earnest until about 4 from home.
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Cheers, Danny.

I've only watched the race the twice, the second time just to re-watch how GEC ran and didn't get home (a non-stayer in my book too, unless it went lame or something after two out).

Watching big races like this I'm always watching to see when the beaten horses start coming under the pump and how many are struggling with, say, half a mile to go.

I actually thought the on-screen clock was telling us the race was run on the strong side. The Badger Beer was very strongly run and Remastered was up with the pace all the way until falling but he looked outpaced over the longer trip on Saturday.

I tend to go through a 'take out the winner and..' approach and then 'take out the second...' and see how the form then stacks uo.

Broadway Boy was a job horse beat into second. I was on Victtorino for its two early Ascot wins last season and rate it better than a handicapper. It was a combination of jumping and price along with the strength of opposition that put me off it at the weekend and the bastert beat me for the place money on GEF. For me he's a 160 horse when things go well for him but he might need to go right-handed.

The fifth and sixth also held very viable claims but ended up well beaten.

I think the form is very strong. As I've said before, my ratings tend to be 5lbs higher than RPRs yet RPRs rate the winner 10lbs higher than the OR it ran off so I'm likely to rate it around 15lbs higher once I get round to looking back at the race so a 6lbs rise is relatively little and the horse has strong prospects of improving more than that going into its next race.

I'd have the winner very much to the forefront of my Grand National thoughts right now. I suspect he'll be roughed off and prepped once the weights are published.
 
Danny said:
I realise that you are the moderator and the guy who's done a wonderful job at revamping the forum. But, if you have to smack the bottom of one of the Forums most valuable and longstanding stalwarts for using offensive language then at least refrain from using sexist remarks whilst doing so. Whilst being born a "he" and identifying as a male, fully equipped with a small and... more wrinkly than dangly thing between my legs I retain the right to be as offended by any C-Bomb as much as any female. Not that I am offended, but that has nothing to do with my gender and more to do with the fact that I'm an absolute rogue who has a bit of a potty mouth from time to time himself and see's not much harm in the odd naughty word as long as its not directly aimed at a fellow forumite.

Thankyou.
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I don't think the mod was using sexist language, Danny.

I can swear with the best of them and am guilty of using the c-word* but I also know it's a line that shouldn't be crossed in normal interaction with others whether in person or on a forum.

(* ... usually only when watching the racing or football on my own and preceded by the words 'ya useless' in referring to a jockey that gets a fence or a challenge totally wrong or when a footballer makes a terrible pass or misses a sitter.)
 
By the way, Broadway Boy only went up 2lbs and Victtorino not at all.

Broadway Boy definitely has a £100k handicap in him but which one will they target? My guess would be the big one at Kempton in February but you never know.

Victtorino's future success will obviously depend on his jumping. If he puts in a mistake-free round at any point he wins any handicap with his head in his chest.
 
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