'abortion Like Holocaust'

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jejquade

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The head of the Catholic Church in England and Wales has likened abortion to the Holocaust.

Cardinal Cormac Murphy O'Connor told a newspaper that abortion was like eugenics practised by the Nazis.

He compared the six million foetuses terminated since the Abortion Act to the six million Jews killed by Nazi Germany.

The Cardinal had previously praised Tory leader Michael Howard after he indicated he favoured reducing the limit on abortions from the 24th week of pregnancy to the 20th week.

However, he said he was not telling Catholics which party to support.

In an article for the Sunday Telegraph, he condemned "(the) terrible truth that it is the strong who decide the fate of the weak".

He wrote: "Human beings therefore become instruments of other human beings. That way lies eugenics, and we know from German history where that leads.

"We are already on that road: for what else is the termination of six million lives in the womb since the Abortion Act was introduced, and embryo selection on the basis of gender and genes?"

The cleric said he was not trying to tell politicians what they should be.

His remarks came after a report earlier this week by the Commons' Science and Technology Select Committee, which called for parents to be given the right to choose their baby's sex - and bitterly divided the influential group of MPs.





How on earth can this guy be allowed to carry on? :what:
 
Originally posted by jejquade@Mar 27 2005, 10:14 PM
In an article for the Sunday Telegraph, he condemned "(the) terrible truth that it is the strong who decide the fate of the weak".
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That's exactly what it is!

If you don't like it, find another religion that will accommodate you.
 
Or you can choose to have none at all...

Cardinal Cormac Murphy O'Connor spent his formative years in a country that then refused abortion even to young girls who had become pregnant after being raped by members of their own families. If God exists, may he save us from the priests and the fundamentalists of all religions.

Perhaps his eminence would like a glimpse of the past in Britain? He could do worse than go to see Mike Leigh's Vera Drake.
 
Originally posted by BrianH@Mar 27 2005, 10:27 PM
Or you can choose to have none at all...

Cardinal Cormac Murphy O'Connor spent his formative years in a country that then refused abortion even to young girls who had become pregnant after being raped by members of their own families. If God exists, may he save us from the priests and the fundamentalists of all religions.

Perhaps his eminence would like a glimpse of the past in Britain? He could do worse than go to see Mike Leigh's Vera Drake.
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I agree it isn't really a religious matter at all, but the Cardinal told it like it is whether one likes/agrees with it.
 
Well, his eminence is, of course, instructed to have his view and if he wants to direct his flock towards Michael Howard and his band of brothers good luck to him, but he'll have backed a loser.

Anyway, I'm still very worried that you considered The Professionals to be heavyweight material...
 
I don't agree with girls using abortion as a form of contraception, but i also know we don't need anymore unwanted children in this world. Adoption is a differcult and painful thing for all parties and has long term effects on all the people involved. Also to force someone who has been raped to have that rapist child, is not only cruel and damaging to the mother but also the child. And if the childs quality of life is going to be non existent, its not fair to bring into this world especially if the parents won't be able to cope.
 
The strong have always decided the fate of the weak, and the most powerful of the strong for centuries was the Church, ensuring that the weak remained in place (but promised a luvverly life in the hereafter, provided they behaved). Those that didn't behave tended to be burned alive, tortured in unspeakably sadistic ways, branded on their foreheads, banished and dispossessed. For the good of their souls, of course, which made it all right. It came a wee bit unstuck via Henry VIII's serial marrying and murdering of his wives, but overall it's linked hands with the power bases of the time and is yet to be heard thundering from its' pulpit about the annihilation of thousands of fully-grown and sentient Iraqis.

The Cardinal, who has managed to knock aside any real repentance due by the Church for knowingly hosting paedophile priests, is simply reiterating the Catholic stance on such issues, and is bound by his duty to do so. When the Jewish Holocaust is hauled out as a handy analogy, during which the Catholic Church did nothing to assist Jews (or homosexuals, Romanies, and the retarded) in their years of need, it comes over as tasteless and insensitive. I'm not surprised that Jews are pissed off by his statement.

I quite obviously have no idea why some 200,000 abortions are performed in the UK annually, save that it would be interesting to know what percentage of those are provided to women arriving from countries which ban the operation, and what percentage is done for medical reasons. Ireland used to be a fairly steady user of the facility in the UK, but perhaps that's not so much the case these days? I'd imagine that a large percentage are due to not using - either through their unavailability and/or religious constraints - family planning methods, or to too many young girls falling pregnant through ignorance or stupidity.

The Cardinal may rage at the statistic, but without the facts behind it, it fails to address the reasons for the number. Fortunately, though, we are in the position in the UK of not having babies abandoned in their thousands to die of exposure, or to having repeats of the Magdalen homes for 'fallen' girls, treated by sadistic nuns as nothing more than vile bodies.
 
24th week ! thats 6 months and that seems very cruel.
at this stage, the embryo may already be able to sustain itself

at our place, abortion is only legal up until the 12th week.
there is big step toward life during pregnancy.
 
Originally posted by jejquade@Mar 27 2005, 10:50 PM
Adoption is a differcult and painful thing for all parties and has long term effects on all the people involved. ... And if the childs quality of life is going to be non existent, its not fair to bring into this world especially if the parents won't be able to cope.
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I have three adopted nieces and one adopted nephew. I have nothing but total admiration for my siblings and their respective wives/husband who adopted them, and the kids have grown/are growing into wonderful people.

It's not been without its difficulties, I'm sure, but I'm sure the apoptees must count their blessings with regard to the families into which they have been welcomed. I'd be deeply upset if this wasn't true of over 90% of adoptions since agencies go to sometimes ridiculous lengths to vet the adoptive families/parents. It would be rare for an agency to allow a family to adopt if it felt the family couldn't cope.

And there is a huge waiting list of willing adoptive parents.

I'd be interested to know what your evidence is regarding "quality of life is going to be non-existent".
 
I'm not talking about children who are healthy. I'm talking about ones who are severly handicapped either mentally or physically and will have no quality of life.

By the way i know exactly how people feel in Adoption cases.
 
Originally posted by jejquade@Mar 28 2005, 08:49 AM
I'm not talking about children who are healthy. I'm talking about ones who are severly handicapped either mentally or physically and will have no quality of life.
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So you'd have had every "severely handicapped either mentally or physically" person sucked from his/her mother's womb? Mozart was stone deaf. Should his mother have taken a coathanger to him?

And who are you to judge the quality of life of "severely handicapped either mentally or physically" people?

And what constitutes "severely"?

Does a disability make a person unhealthy?

You'd have got on well in the Third Reich.
 
Being Deaf is not a severe handicap. But my fiamcees parents are Care Assistant and there are alot of people they look after tht as horrible as it sounds would have been better off not being here. They have no idea they are alive,can't move AT ALL. I can't nae you specific diseases i'm not a Doctor. But here's th other side, they look after a lady who has spiina bifida amongst alot of other debilatating ailments, but she loves live, knows whats going on and is fantastic company. She also has a great sense of humour about her condition. Her mother ws told she wouldn't live past 5 she's now nearly 40, but she is deteriotating rapidly now and her quality of life is slipping away, she's been in a wheelchair for her whole life and used to have independence, now she needs help with everything she does. We and her family have now got to watch her waste away, and she's got to see us watch her.

Now personally i'm not sure i could abort any child for whatever reason, but until i'm that situation i can't judge people who do. And people with children that are definately going to have no quality of life at all, eg the brain is not stimulated by anything so when they are born the literally will be a vegetable i am not going to question them if they decide an abortion, because if they can't cope there is no way that child would be adopted


Also anyone who would have a go at people who abort after being raped should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
 
Originally posted by jejquade@Mar 28 2005, 09:15 AM
there are alot of people they look after tht as horrible as it sounds would have been better off not being here.
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Says who? You? Your fiancé's parents?

Who's to say the patients don't wake up every day thinking, "Thank God I made it through the night! I can look forward to a new day."
 
Look forward to what may i ask? Shitting and pissing the bed waiting for someone to com clean you up feed you. They never leave their beds, bar the care assistant bathing them.
 
Originally posted by jejquade@Mar 28 2005, 08:31 AM
Shitting and pissing the bed waiting for someone to come clean you up feed you. They never leave their beds, bar the care assistant bathing them.
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I would hope you will all pardon my mirth in the midst of such a serious topic. But this sounds just about ideal to me.
 
Originally posted by jejquade@Mar 28 2005, 09:31 AM
Look forward to what may i ask? Shitting and pissing the bed waiting for someone to com clean you up feed you. They never leave their beds, bar the care assistant bathing them.
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And those might be the things they hold most precious in their time of need.

You really just want to get in there an give them an injection, don't you?
 
Maurice, Mozart wasn't deaf. He was occasionally flatulent, I believe. I think that you may be confusing him with Beethoven, whose hearing was fine when he emerged from his mother's womb but who became deaf in his early thirties.
 
Thanks, Brian. I realised halfway through breakfast I was mistaken and meant to edit it. The principle's the same, though. I was born with an astigmatic eye and webbed toes. I wouldn't want to have been vacuumed out and flung in a bin if my parents had known about it in advance, even if I was the result of rape.
 
You're missing my point, j.

How do you define severe?

How qualified are you or I to define what constitutes the right to live?

Who are you or who am I to decide who should live and who shouldn't?

From what you've written so far, I certainly wouldn't want it to be you.
 
I am not a Doctor or a parent in that situation, so its obvious i don't make that decision. I am pointing out that people in that horrible situation shouln't have the added heart ache of making the most differcult of decisions made harder by people like the pro life condeming them.
 
While not in favour of aborting the afflicted for the sake of it, I can't help thinking that your views on the matter may have been formed rather early in life? How does it go? Give me the child and I will give you the man...
 
If you can't prevent unwanted pregnancies then you won't prevent abortions, whether you make them illegal or not.

I don't see this as a religious issue. I am sure that nobody would choose to be involved in an abortion, so surely the answer is to prevent the unwanted pregnancies in the first place? Fat chance of that at the moment. If clerics spent more time trying to teach people morals in a modern context and less time waffling on about the consequences of failing to do so, then maybe things would improve.
 
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