Aintree Thursday

Kauto looked laboured long before his mistake, he ran similar when 2nd to Monet's. Maybe he don't like Aintree ?

Problem for me is the Order Of Merit is ruining racing as people like Nicholls are happy to risk their best horses out of greed, even when its obvious the horse probably isn't 100%
 
Nicholls has a yard of owners who are businessmen and buy, sell and above all run their horses as a business. That imo is the problem here. I doubt Nicholls would have had the choice whether or not to run KS today. Btw I agree Chris that the OM is not in the interests of the best horses - or any horses

And having said all that - and tho I got a big return on my W&P on Our Vic, the race was very upsetting as KS was to my eyes going very well [certainly better than at Cheltenham] for a long way and then clearly blew up. Clearly to me anyway - tactics were part of that, but Richard Dunwoody remarked before the race that KS was 'carrying quite a bit of condition' - and imo people still aren't addressign the question of what he is doing at home...

I just hope these last two races aren't going to leave a psychological mark
 
I wonder if it is worth looking at this from the French-bred angle. For many years it was thought that as they are jumping and winning from such an early age then how long do they last. I know there were the exceptions who went on and on like Sabin Du Loir & have just checked KS's record. He's had 26 races in all including 6 as a 3-Y-O. Debut was in a 1m 6fur race in April as a 3-Y-O. He's won a lot of top races very easily but that's probably because he's just very good but the 2 Gold Cups, the Aon last year - they take their toll in the end.

We've all been amazed at MM's Champion Chase performance at 5. Is he going to be 10-15lbs better when he's 7? He's the next Arkle if he is? If KS has run to his best and Our Vic is now a 180 then we've suddenly got 4 horses 180+ ?????
This is totally unknown territory. Are all these horses overrated?

Headstrong - I accept your point about the Nicholls stable being full of businessmen but surely it's different to the Ballydoyle/Godolphin axis on the flat where breeding calls the shots. If it's true that Clive Smith paid £280,000 for MM where is his sell-on value? Surely only McManus would attempt to buy him. If CS has that sort of money to spend on MM and not be guaranteed that the horse will win him numerous Grade Ones then why is is chasing a piddling £200,000 for the OM?

Interesting that they've gone the old traditional route with Denman being a traditional NH bred animal (and perhaps Barber is more of an old school NH owner).
 
What a brave animal. He hit that fence hard, and i genuinely thought he had injured himself, showed amazing guts to try keep his head in front. Quite why Walsh tried to force the horse so early is beyond me. I can only think it was an ego thing with the thinking being ' we'll show people he is still the daddy'
 
Because Nicholls told him to employ those tactics: and Ruby was reportedly against that and consequently very upset by what happened - and Nicholls admitted it was his call and his mistake. I think Ruby is a s desperate as the rest of us who believe in the horse that his reputation is being tarnished by these two runs [which imo should not have happened]

Our Vic doesn't like being joined in the lead and they wanted to worry him out of it. They identified the danger correctly and attempted to neutralise it by taking him on. It didn't work imo because KS has still not been able to recover peak fitness since the injury to his foot at Ascot, I believe that's due to a lack of galloping. He showed tremendous courage to get home today - I really feared he might collapse after the line
 
There are an awful lot of people being wise after the event imo ~ I don't recall anyone up in arms when they saw KS among the declarations. I seems to me that there are a surfeit of opinions dressed as knowledge and an absence of actual insight here. Perhaps that's what's wrong with the forum.
 
Can you be more specific Rory? Who are the people being wise after the event? Which opinions are being dressed as knowledge?
 
I'm sorry, but KS lost that race because ruby Walsh asked him to put in a ridiculous jump at the second last from way too far from the fence. Ok, if it was on the first circuit msybe, but near the end of a gruelling 3m chase? It was a suicidal leap, and the horse did brilliantly to stay on his feet.
 
I thought the horse decided to jump that one so far out it's not the first time he has paddled a fence also OV missed one too in the closing stages, he lost fair n'square.
 
I'm sure Nicholls regrets running the horse in the race now. Is that being classed as being wise after the event.

The horse has had two tough seasons - following an earlier injury. It would be a remarkable achievement if he was to come back next year within 4-5lbs of his best.

I think he was borderline unbeatable in his first Haydock race.

As for yesterday. He was labouring down the back straight, labouring as he went past OV and knackered from 2 out. Had he jumped the second last cleanly, he probably would have been far enough ahead to hold on, but it would have been a close run thing.

The horse tries so hard, as he did when nearly winning after falling, when struggling behind Denman and again yesterday. Was knackered coming down to the last and threw himself at the fence.

The fact that at 8 he is probably past his best is the reason why the Irish bred has been fashionable to buy for a couple of centuries.
 
I thought the run of Group Captain was a bit damning to the form of the Ballymore properties. Not that there aren't good reasons why some of those who finished ahead of him can't go on to bigger and better things, just the performance on the day was probably a bit dubious for a Grade 1 novice hurdle.
 
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