granger
Senior Jockey
It didnt look to me like she took it as pure banter Trackside. Professional face on her was rather evident
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Andy Gray
- Thread starter BlazingWalker
- Start date
rorydelargy
At the Start
Couldn't agree more - forced to accept the culture, but not forced to join in, thankfully.
trackside528
At the Start
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If you watch carefully (and I have - multiple times...) she looks to flash a smile just after 0.03.
I would still maintain it is on an entirely different level to the sexist remarks he made about the lineswoman.
I would still maintain it is on an entirely different level to the sexist remarks he made about the lineswoman.
granger
Senior Jockey
That exact line is what i'd expect form Mr Gray's attorney
Come on
And that exact scenario has been recreated on every office sexual harassment video you will ever witness
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G
Gearoid
Guest
I think he has serious grounds for appeal unless an official complaint was lodged to HR.
G
Gearoid
Guest
It's shocking.
Woman in office: God the office is really warm today.
Male colleague: Take your top off...
Laughter all round
Put that on a tape it's sexual harassment
Woman in office: God the office is really warm today.
Male colleague: Take your top off...
Laughter all round
Put that on a tape it's sexual harassment
All goes to context, doesn't it? If you're all fairly equal colleagues, know each other, perhaps share a drink after work - or if it's your boss, and you are far from equal. In my first job at 17, my 50+ old boss used to feel up the backs of my legs when I brought papers for him to sign. Honest to God, I really didn't realise it was him until I went to swat away what I thought was a creepy-crawly (which it was, really), and smacked his errant hand. He didn't do it again, but there's no end to the sort of 'harrassment' that females are expected to take. It demeans the men giving it out, not the women, and makes them look inept at a certain level of gender interraction. Going by some of the responses on here, though, it's heartening to see that we're slowly climbing out of the Neanderthal era!
But think about this as a volte-face, Clivex: "Phew, it's bloody hot in here!"
Female boss to male underling: "If you're that hot, Pete, get yer knob out!"
Hysterical laughter, or embarrassed guffaws? Sexual harrassment? Tribunal? The sack?
I think the prob would be a bloke feeling he was a wuss if he reported that sort of thing - but if it happens, he should. Gender equality means the same for all.
Female boss to male underling: "If you're that hot, Pete, get yer knob out!"
Hysterical laughter, or embarrassed guffaws? Sexual harrassment? Tribunal? The sack?
I think the prob would be a bloke feeling he was a wuss if he reported that sort of thing - but if it happens, he should. Gender equality means the same for all.
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Whaddya mean in 'some' ways, sonny? :lol:
There's no point in women wanting equal pay for equal work and then bleating if they're reported for harrassing male colleagues. I can't think if there are such cases, but imagine female bosses making kissy noises and winking at their male staff when they arrive at the office, giving them little taps on the backside, maybe even slightly too-long, unsolicited hugs, and so on. Again, it's all about context and also reciprocity: if I can give you a wink and a hug, but you couldn't possibly give me one due to your status, then we're not treating each other as equals.
There's no point in women wanting equal pay for equal work and then bleating if they're reported for harrassing male colleagues. I can't think if there are such cases, but imagine female bosses making kissy noises and winking at their male staff when they arrive at the office, giving them little taps on the backside, maybe even slightly too-long, unsolicited hugs, and so on. Again, it's all about context and also reciprocity: if I can give you a wink and a hug, but you couldn't possibly give me one due to your status, then we're not treating each other as equals.
trackside528
At the Start
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- 5,377
EC1
On a break
how does getting your knob out ...cool you down on a hot day?
Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2006
- Messages
- 16,050
Should what, Kri? Report it or get his knob out?
It would be useful if you could respond quickly. I've got a 9am meeting with the Typing Pool tomorrow, and I want to make sure I get this right.
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betsmate
At the Start
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- Dec 7, 2004
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- 5,752
Andy Gray sues Murdoch's NOTW. Murdoch is effectively paying for his lawyers via his sky contract. Of course he had to go.
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The sexism stuff was just the cleanest, cheapest way to make that happen. No point in paying off his contract in full, when a bit of faux public outrage, easily drummed up by your own media outlet, will do It for free. Especially considering what he is spending his money on.
.
The sexism stuff was just the cleanest, cheapest way to make that happen. No point in paying off his contract in full, when a bit of faux public outrage, easily drummed up by your own media outlet, will do It for free. Especially considering what he is spending his money on.
Grassy - I think just offering them promotions if they 'twiddle the right knobs, know what I mean, girls?' should be sufficient. You can pretty much play it as it lies from there.
I think Betsmate has - along with some journos - hit the nail on the noggin. This particular incident reeks of a set-up, because you cannot for one moment believe this was the one and only time the man would've made those sort of remarks. There's a huge amount of sexism, now more covert than previously permitted, throughout what were once male-dominated domains, some of which is just fun banter, some of which is more concerned with keeping wimmin out and men in. In this case, while the remarks are sexist, they're blown out of proportion and 'leaked' presumably with malicious intent.
The Wright Stuff discussed this at some length this morning, with the idea of sexism playing either way being raised. But I think it still all goes to context: if it's wilfully used to belittle, degrade, keep someone in an inferior place (cue too many religions), abuse one's status, etc., then it's not a joke. If it's free-and-easy banter between equals, both being amused, it's just meant as fun. But when one side feels uneasy with it and would prefer it not to happen it's overstepping a fine line. Knowing the difference as to where that line is can mean keeping or losing a job.
Much was made of Loose Women constantly haranguing males in the name of entertainment, and asking if this wasn't payback for 'thousands of years of oppression by men'. Believe me, the oppression goes on, mostly sanctioned by assorted religions such as Hinduism, Islam and Christianity, all invoking their deities' wrath if women step out of lines drawn up by mere mortal men.
There's a distinct difference in 'sexism' when a Hindu widow was supposed to throw herself alive onto her husband's cremation and, if she didn't want to expire in such a hideous fashion, would be hurled onto it anyway, or when quixotic sultans could amass young virgins for sexual pleasure, then drown entire harems on a whim. There was a very interesting programme a night ago on Davadasi, the Hindu practice of selling girls who hit puberty into prostitution. It's only practised by the Dalit ("Untouchables"), but the users of such children can be from any caste. Now, that's sexism all right, supposedly not now permitted but still thriving. It's but one ancient tradition, along with all Hindu widows who escape suttee never being allowed to marry again - but they can make ends meet by servicing the sexual appetites of men. Nice, innit? As I say, it all goes to context.
I think Betsmate has - along with some journos - hit the nail on the noggin. This particular incident reeks of a set-up, because you cannot for one moment believe this was the one and only time the man would've made those sort of remarks. There's a huge amount of sexism, now more covert than previously permitted, throughout what were once male-dominated domains, some of which is just fun banter, some of which is more concerned with keeping wimmin out and men in. In this case, while the remarks are sexist, they're blown out of proportion and 'leaked' presumably with malicious intent.
The Wright Stuff discussed this at some length this morning, with the idea of sexism playing either way being raised. But I think it still all goes to context: if it's wilfully used to belittle, degrade, keep someone in an inferior place (cue too many religions), abuse one's status, etc., then it's not a joke. If it's free-and-easy banter between equals, both being amused, it's just meant as fun. But when one side feels uneasy with it and would prefer it not to happen it's overstepping a fine line. Knowing the difference as to where that line is can mean keeping or losing a job.
Much was made of Loose Women constantly haranguing males in the name of entertainment, and asking if this wasn't payback for 'thousands of years of oppression by men'. Believe me, the oppression goes on, mostly sanctioned by assorted religions such as Hinduism, Islam and Christianity, all invoking their deities' wrath if women step out of lines drawn up by mere mortal men.
There's a distinct difference in 'sexism' when a Hindu widow was supposed to throw herself alive onto her husband's cremation and, if she didn't want to expire in such a hideous fashion, would be hurled onto it anyway, or when quixotic sultans could amass young virgins for sexual pleasure, then drown entire harems on a whim. There was a very interesting programme a night ago on Davadasi, the Hindu practice of selling girls who hit puberty into prostitution. It's only practised by the Dalit ("Untouchables"), but the users of such children can be from any caste. Now, that's sexism all right, supposedly not now permitted but still thriving. It's but one ancient tradition, along with all Hindu widows who escape suttee never being allowed to marry again - but they can make ends meet by servicing the sexual appetites of men. Nice, innit? As I say, it all goes to context.
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Women - know your place! On the other hand, isn't it meant to be ironically retro? They've always marketed the air travel as if it was a 1950s cartoon strip - lantern-jawed manly men, gorgeously-groomed, perfect women. Everyone else is a fat geek or a dumpy frump.
The Shari'ah is even-handed about adultery, though - prove it and both adulterers get the death sentence: the difference in the process of execution is that adulterous chaps are given a bit of a sporting chance by usually only being buried up to their waists in sand, while the ladies are up to their shoulders, unable to wriggle free. Now that's sexism, not the fact that the punishment for proven adultery is death!
No, we don't have to 'understand' suttee, bride burning, killing only girl babies, denying women the right to regulate childbearing, forcing girls into prostitution; giving away your daughters to other tribesmen regardless of what they may want; demanding a higher dowry or not letting your daughter marry at all; forcing girls into sex work at the point of death threats; refusing education on the grounds of gender; believing beating wives is a normal activity... the list of oppression against the female gender, worldwide, is virtually endless.
We don't have to understand or accept any of it. We should stop pretending that because a mindset is different from ours, it's wrong to challenge it because that mindset might threaten to limit our petroleum supplies, might stop importing our goods, might refuse to let us have an Embassy, might wave a stick at us.
It's right to say that we don't accept this behaviour as anywhere near a civilized norm and that we won't trade, we don't want their goods, we won't send an Ambassador, and we sure as hell won't take up diplomatic relations while those activities persist. But we won't.
No, we don't have to 'understand' suttee, bride burning, killing only girl babies, denying women the right to regulate childbearing, forcing girls into prostitution; giving away your daughters to other tribesmen regardless of what they may want; demanding a higher dowry or not letting your daughter marry at all; forcing girls into sex work at the point of death threats; refusing education on the grounds of gender; believing beating wives is a normal activity... the list of oppression against the female gender, worldwide, is virtually endless.
We don't have to understand or accept any of it. We should stop pretending that because a mindset is different from ours, it's wrong to challenge it because that mindset might threaten to limit our petroleum supplies, might stop importing our goods, might refuse to let us have an Embassy, might wave a stick at us.
It's right to say that we don't accept this behaviour as anywhere near a civilized norm and that we won't trade, we don't want their goods, we won't send an Ambassador, and we sure as hell won't take up diplomatic relations while those activities persist. But we won't.
Hmm... the plot thickens as per tonight's news.
But going back to 'sexism' - what about black American men referring to ho's (whores) and bitches in their music? And what to make of very scantily-clad girls gyrating to it in their promo vids? Is nobody going to say that's disrespectful and denigrating, because nobody wants to take on black men? You know they'd get a slap from their mothers if they used those phrases to mean them or their sisters! All that does is to help perpetuate the age-old crap, most demonstrated by the extremes of Christian faith in particular, of women as virginal saints or lustful, deceiving whores.
There seems to be very little middle way in a world view - we are either to be harshly controlled by men, mostly through their religions (all male fabrications, the lot of them), or pitied as some bizarre outcasts, not quite right in the head, if we protest at our lot.
But going back to 'sexism' - what about black American men referring to ho's (whores) and bitches in their music? And what to make of very scantily-clad girls gyrating to it in their promo vids? Is nobody going to say that's disrespectful and denigrating, because nobody wants to take on black men? You know they'd get a slap from their mothers if they used those phrases to mean them or their sisters! All that does is to help perpetuate the age-old crap, most demonstrated by the extremes of Christian faith in particular, of women as virginal saints or lustful, deceiving whores.
There seems to be very little middle way in a world view - we are either to be harshly controlled by men, mostly through their religions (all male fabrications, the lot of them), or pitied as some bizarre outcasts, not quite right in the head, if we protest at our lot.
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Gearoid
Guest
Richard Keys has resigned.