Another One Of Blairs Promises? Pdj Etc

Let me point out the facts of what is happening so that anyone who may be interested is not misled by incorrect assumptions that they may have read, here or anywhere else.

(1) Sir Alan Steer, head of Seven Kings school in Essex, was asked to chair a "task force" of senior teachers on various issues in schools, mainly concerning disruptive pupils.

(2) The 88 page Steer group report was published yesterday. It set out more than eighty detailed recommendations to tackle widespread low-level disruption as well as serious misbehaviour and violence.

(3) Among the recommendations are:

(i) that teachers could have the clear legal right to discipline disruptive pupils and restrain them through the use of "reasonable force".

(ii) that the government consider extending new powers for head teachers to search pupils for weapons to drugs and stolen property.

(iii) tougher penalties and fixed fines for poor classroom discipline to force parents to take more responsibility for their children's behaviour.

(4) The education secretary, Ruth Kelly, promised to implement the key recommendations "as soon as possible".

(5) An education white paper next week is likely to include the Steer group's recommendations.

(6) The white paper will be debated in the house and with broad support from the opposition should become law.

(7) The schools minister, Jacqui Smith, said the new legislation could be on the statute book by September next year.

Now that, in a nutshell, is what has happened so far. I suggest that it's a little different to some of what has been said on here.
 
The Divisional Court blew a hole in curfews by holding that althoigh they could be imposed and people asked to disperse the children could not be forceably taken home . Quite right too when there was no evidence of wrongdoing .

Know which country had a law controlling anti social behaviour before we did - yep the Soviet Union
 
Merlin, I was merely saying that the kind of incidents to which you refer were happening when I was a youngster 40+ years ago. I got the impression you were blaming this government for the fact it hadn't stopped.
 
Point taken D/O (maybe there are more of them now, doing it now) but these kids are not taking a bit of notice of the police they laugh at them in fact...
forty years ago you would have had a toe ender off a copper if you transgressed... these youths are phoning up the police to tell them they have nicked a car and want a chase,(this been going on for 7 yrs to my knowledge) it happened here every night of the week screaming tyres all times of the evening /night/early mornings…

But since this government have been in power with this softly softly touch and police getting prosecuted for giving a kid a slap!! these are the results!! That’s what I am saying/highlighting, there needs to be a deterrent!! And give back the power to the police..

That element of respect!! from children to their elders!! that now seems to be missing all around, including respect for other people and their basic values, it’s a sad demise which is very apparent down here and no doubt where you live too if its on a par as you reckon it is?....

Most nights vandalism phone boxes ripped out bus stops smashed then replaced and smashed up again graffiti in paint not highlighter no one bothers to ring the police any more as they fail to respond if called.

Trick or treat next week(a nightmare for the elderly living here) a FREE licence to cause more vandalism and get away with it!! egg throwing at houses, cars, windows, flour throwing stone throwing, fireworks let off (these bangers been going off for the last 5 weeks did this government say it was against the law to do this unless with a proviso of a celebration or party then they can be used) or similar? Must be a lot of parties going on in the BRONX…..??

Yes you know the answer nothing gets done down here so as ARDROSS states its difficult to debate law on here as it gets taken out of context, (I have tried by part hijacking the thread which I posted for the teachers on here and showing my support for them! and then getting chastised by one of them for hijacking the thread to talk about law in my neighbourhood) but lets hope this spin comes to fruition for their sakes) and also its actions as its seems not to be apparent in all places in the U/K as Brian as part stated, but it certainly is happening and very apparent in the inner cities and the blackboard!!! Jungles which I know of……. :rolleyes:

p.s I forgot to add 5 yrs ago I wrote to the Home Secretary regarding police and the law in this neighbourhood and was told its not our problem but an operations problem write to your Chief Constable I did and still nothing was done. :angy:
 
Maybe, but also:

1. It was 'alright' in the police's eye 40 years ago to beat up innocent citizens. I know from the experience of a family member.

2. The invitation to a car chase is probably simply the modern version of knocking off the bobby's helmet and runing away.

3. It isn't this government that's prosecuting the police if they allegedly assault a member of the public. A lot of this is down to lawyers and influenced by similar suits in the USA. The government isn't responsible for a softly-softly approach, if it exists, which I don't think it does.

4. Lack of respect from kids to parents isn't this government's fault either. It's a generational thing and has taken two or three generations to come about. It's down to bad parenting due to post-war economic growth and the I'm-alright-Jack-f*ck-the-rest-of-you attitudes spawned in the Thatcher era. The kids I meet seem better behaved now than they were fifteen or twenty years ago, but maybe that's just down to living away from the city. Certainly the 'trick or treat' thing doesn't happen here. Kids have to sing a song or tell a joke or they get nothing.

5. Vandalism was rife when I was young, so no change there. Many of my best friends and relatives were vandals.

This government - any government - faces a thankless task in trying to address the issues but at least they are trying.
 
Originally posted by Merlin the Magician@Oct 22 2005, 11:58 AM
But since this government have been in power with this softly softly touch and police getting prosecuted for giving a kid a slap!! these are the results!! That’s what I am saying/highlighting, there needs to be a deterrent!! And give back the power to the police..

Click to expand...
I know that some forum membes never like to let the facts get in the way of their argument, but thought it time for just a few more.

(1) Since 1995 the prison population has increased by 51%

(2) Since Labour came to power the prison population has risen by 17,160.

(3) There are currently 3,000 children in prison.

Martin Narey, the departing head of the prison service who has served every Home secretary since 1989 has shocked many with his scathing attack on the prison system, highlighting statistics that show thousands of mentally ill inmates and a record number of children constitute a significant part of the prison population

He condemns massive prison overcrowding and says that the rise in numbers behind bars is impossible to justify. Narey says: "Crime has been falling for some years. Some crime, burglary for instance, has fallen very significantly indeed. So there is simply no need to incarcerate the numbers we do."
 
The problems on housing estates which is highlighted often enough is caused by youngsters who would not be sent to prison and in most cases would never be dealt with in any form so would never be a statistic.
 
Any one noticed that kids grow to be adults and take their vicious behaviour into adulthood with them?

They then have children who grow up to be just like their parents,yobs.

I know that i am 66 years old and must conform into a society that is much more civilized than when i was a child.

But i can say that the worst that most kids did whan i was young was to knock on some ones door and run away.If we got caught,we received two clips around the ear.One from the guy who chased us and another from our parents.

It will never get better because we are in the third generation since discipline was accepted as part of growing up.

We now have Parents who get pissed and thump one another and they have children of working age doing the same.

Children under the age of fourteen are following the example of older brother/sister who are following the example shown by their parents.

I know that everyone on will disagree but the kids need a good beating,just to show them that they are not the leaders of the pack.

By kids ,i mean those that are out of control.

But,if the parents are of the same ilk,what then.

It will take decades.
 
Gareth.
Don't take it out of context.

You will see that i am talking of many,many years.
 
So was I. Spousal abuse, for example, is hardly a modern phenomenon, particularly where alcohol is involved.
 
Gareth.
There was also rape and murder and bank robbers.

The children were not out of control though,generally speaking.

I can't remember my Mother being scared witless to go out for a drink.
 
Originally posted by rumoursabound@Oct 23 2005, 06:25 PM
Kids need a good beating, just to show them that they are not the leaders of the pack.
Click to expand...
And they should continue to be beaten until they realise that violence is wrong...
 
Brian.
How long do you think that it will take for the teachers and others to learn that being beaten up by morons is the right way.

It's ok for you to sit in your ivory tower and pontificate,get into the classroom and receive a few smacks,you might change your mind. :)
 
Derek, Brian's come a long way from his days round Stepford as 'Big Aitch', and prefers to disassociate himself from that dark past. Why, it's rumoured that there are 'reasons' why certain parts of his garden are greener than others. And those reasons haven't been seen for some 20 years...
 
Originally posted by rumoursabound@Oct 23 2005, 07:59 PM
It's ok for you to sit in your ivory tower and pontificate
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You couldn't ne more wrong. When you know anything about my life you can comment on it, meanwhile how about sticking to some facts?
 
Brian.
Well,i don't know you,so i can only go on what i read on this forum.

Sorry about that.

You don't know me either.

I am not sorry about that.
 
PDJ.
I was not being abusive.

I have no idea who Brian is apart from his profile on this forum.

He might be a saint for all i know.
 
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