Anyone Work In The Pr/ Marketing Industry?
- Thread starter Warbler
- Start date
K
Kathy
Guest
Having read this thread and between Bobbyjo and Warbler, I am sure they could put a brilliant piece together (or one each) and send it off to The Racing Post! Adding Betsmate's picture would be a great idea too. 
Clearly there is a vast talent of writing on this forum so why not put a few articles (as you would like to to see them) on here and see what happens. shrug::
Clearly there is a vast talent of writing on this forum so why not put a few articles (as you would like to to see them) on here and see what happens. shrug::
I said right at the start that it would require a bit of gamble on the part of the HRA as fitness can't be guaranteed but neither can it in human athletes either. The odd boxing promotion has floundered too, although what they normally do in that case is rush in an emergency replacement punch bag. There's an element of risk involved sure, there always is, but you need to take a chance now and then on a product and conservative thinking will only ensure that nothing changes. The concept of Planet Football is a problem, but that shouldn't be invoked as an excuse to say we can't do anything.
Journalism (sports or otherwise) is only one avenue, provided the people co-ordinating the campaign were in possession of a sufficiently fertile imagination, there would be a number of fronts one could use to raise the profile off.
One that occurs to me in this desperate age that we live in, where celebrity seems to be the opium of the people, would be to set up a network of racing fans who have access to the public eye. This wouldn't be difficult to do, and I dare say that we could list about 50 straight away who we know hold an interest in racing. All you need do is approach them and politely ask them to consider endorsing one against the other the next time they are interviewed. They're quite skilled in turning a question around to an irrelevant answer, or to find away of slipping it into one of those stupid magazine interviews, or even put their own name to ghosted article. It's kind of ambush advertising, but all of a sudden if you've got so called celebrities talking about things, then the media and public will follow suit. It's not as if there aren't enough footballers with racing interests too, you could even plug into this if you wanted to draw on some of footballs media impact and use it to advantage, rather than bemoan its ertswhile predominance.
For crying out loud you might even be able to stage manage the whole thing. It would only require Jade Goodey to speak in glowing terms about Kauto Star, and Shilpa Shetty to say she's backing Denman, and bingo!!!! All of a sudden the whole country would be lining up to take sides. If it were managed mischievously, you could even introduce the element of needle that the product is otherwise lacking thus. My God if Katie Hopkins (who looks a bit like Denman incidentally) were to back him, I'd have to think about changing sides (alright I wouldn't) Mind you she'd probably see herself as an Exotic Dancer. Who gives a damn if Alistair Down thinks one thing, and Tom Segal another? Jade and Shilpa though, Sugar and Hopkins, Psice Girls and Girls Aloud (or any other host of potential conflicts) would get this facile population of ours chomping at the bit. You generate the needle or grudge by proxy and transfer to celebrity endorsements instead, it wouldn't be hard to do I reckon, you'd only need about half a dozen celebs to take the bait.
Journalism (sports or otherwise) is only one avenue, provided the people co-ordinating the campaign were in possession of a sufficiently fertile imagination, there would be a number of fronts one could use to raise the profile off.
One that occurs to me in this desperate age that we live in, where celebrity seems to be the opium of the people, would be to set up a network of racing fans who have access to the public eye. This wouldn't be difficult to do, and I dare say that we could list about 50 straight away who we know hold an interest in racing. All you need do is approach them and politely ask them to consider endorsing one against the other the next time they are interviewed. They're quite skilled in turning a question around to an irrelevant answer, or to find away of slipping it into one of those stupid magazine interviews, or even put their own name to ghosted article. It's kind of ambush advertising, but all of a sudden if you've got so called celebrities talking about things, then the media and public will follow suit. It's not as if there aren't enough footballers with racing interests too, you could even plug into this if you wanted to draw on some of footballs media impact and use it to advantage, rather than bemoan its ertswhile predominance.
For crying out loud you might even be able to stage manage the whole thing. It would only require Jade Goodey to speak in glowing terms about Kauto Star, and Shilpa Shetty to say she's backing Denman, and bingo!!!! All of a sudden the whole country would be lining up to take sides. If it were managed mischievously, you could even introduce the element of needle that the product is otherwise lacking thus. My God if Katie Hopkins (who looks a bit like Denman incidentally) were to back him, I'd have to think about changing sides (alright I wouldn't) Mind you she'd probably see herself as an Exotic Dancer. Who gives a damn if Alistair Down thinks one thing, and Tom Segal another? Jade and Shilpa though, Sugar and Hopkins, Psice Girls and Girls Aloud (or any other host of potential conflicts) would get this facile population of ours chomping at the bit. You generate the needle or grudge by proxy and transfer to celebrity endorsements instead, it wouldn't be hard to do I reckon, you'd only need about half a dozen celebs to take the bait.
Colin Phillips
At the Start
Warbler, I find that last post utterly depressing.
Not saying you're wrong, it's the thought that you could well be right is the problem.
Not saying you're wrong, it's the thought that you could well be right is the problem.
The story that a PR agency would sell would be along the lines of the rising popularity of Jump racing (ie how Cheltenham crowds have increased massively over last 10 years...sucess of Aintree festivals) with some stuff about it appealing to a wider audience and then the byline about how certain horses are attracting interest
Of course, some of the facts would be massaged and the negatives would be skipped over, but you do see this type of story on a variety of subjects
One of our agencies got a story run in a few papers about how Flat screen tv's are selling like mad at John Lewis. Is that news? Well, sort of... but the main benefit was obviously to JL. That is how it works
the public is attracted to and interested in positive news.
Of course, some of the facts would be massaged and the negatives would be skipped over, but you do see this type of story on a variety of subjects
One of our agencies got a story run in a few papers about how Flat screen tv's are selling like mad at John Lewis. Is that news? Well, sort of... but the main benefit was obviously to JL. That is how it works
the public is attracted to and interested in positive news.
jft2005
Conditional
the only way I can see racing getting ontot eh front pages is by jockey/trainer scandals & negative press. nothign to with racing as such, just the media world we live in & the editors desires for negative stories. at a guess id say the guardian woudl be most likely to print something positive on the front pages to do with racing.
Go back a few years to the inception of the Premiership and have alook at the papers then...away from the sports pages
Plenty of stories about growing crowds, more female audience, better facilities...There was a fair bit of hype (still is) in the general news
yes, it was news of sorts , but i can guarantee you that a lot of it was driven by a pr agency.
Plenty of stories about growing crowds, more female audience, better facilities...There was a fair bit of hype (still is) in the general news
yes, it was news of sorts , but i can guarantee you that a lot of it was driven by a pr agency.
cricketfan
At the Start
Football is the latest new soap opera, with Sir Alec as Mike Baldwin, Arsene Wenger as Ken Barlow, featuring Gary Neville as Dot Cotton and Roy Keane as Phil Mitchell.
To acheive that level of non-backpage coverage requires far more than a bit of cheap PR, it needs the public interest to start with and editors who know that if they stick comething about Wayne Rooney's private life on their front page that they will sell more papers.
The racing authorities should probably concentrate more on jockeys than the horses. Why, for example, is Frankie Dettori a household name yet AP, Seb Sanders, and Jamie Spencer are virtually unknown outside of those who are into racing ?
I think any PR firm would want to find (or spin) a few more Frankies out of the game as they will generate far more stories than a nag that comes out to play 3 or 4 times a season.
Shadow Leader
At the Start
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2003
- Messages
- 9,884
I've just caught that you've labelled Eddie the Shoe as "just a racing journalist", Warbler. You do realise that's actually a hanging and/or flogging offence?!?!
Warbler,
I must be honest,
I respect your views on racing and find them incredibly informative....I must respect it for the incisive manner in which you examine a particular subject and provide an interesting insight,
However, in relation to your above post, I really must express the opinion that you haven't an absolute notion about the way in which modern society ticks. Not one iota. It's embarassing, if you think Jade Goody endorsing something would make a difference.....well..you are wrong.....unless Jade Goody endorsed one horse or another giving her a humongous orgasm then you haven't a notion.
Seriously, in relation to this topic, you are totally out of tune with reality. Give it up, seriously.
I must be honest,
I respect your views on racing and find them incredibly informative....I must respect it for the incisive manner in which you examine a particular subject and provide an interesting insight,
However, in relation to your above post, I really must express the opinion that you haven't an absolute notion about the way in which modern society ticks. Not one iota. It's embarassing, if you think Jade Goody endorsing something would make a difference.....well..you are wrong.....unless Jade Goody endorsed one horse or another giving her a humongous orgasm then you haven't a notion.
Seriously, in relation to this topic, you are totally out of tune with reality. Give it up, seriously.
EC1
On a break
Warbler
The problem you have is that neither horse is a "titan" as far as the general public are concerned.
If I went round my local town and asked 100 people if they would like to see both horses race against each other most would say..Kauto who?..Denman?
The problem racing has is from week to week glorification of the superstars within it's midsts..that just does not happen on the scale you require.
For a start..it takes a horse to win a "popular" race to be "known"...by that I mean one that holds the public interest..most people would class a grand national winner more worthy than a Gold cup winner...hence Red Rum is better known thatn Arkle.
I don't think any PR person could ever sell what you want here...I'm not sure you could sell Denman being a "titan" even to me taht actually follows the sport.
Denman is far from being a titan..which is a major flaw...he won a handicap..by a similar margin that at least 5 or 6 horses from the last 3 or 4 years would have been capable of achieving in the henessey.
I personally belive that you and many others are getting carried away with "Denmania"...the horse won a handicap comfy...lots do.
I like your idea though...but you will need horses the general public know about...even KS is not a known horse outside racing.
The problem you have is that neither horse is a "titan" as far as the general public are concerned.
If I went round my local town and asked 100 people if they would like to see both horses race against each other most would say..Kauto who?..Denman?
The problem racing has is from week to week glorification of the superstars within it's midsts..that just does not happen on the scale you require.
For a start..it takes a horse to win a "popular" race to be "known"...by that I mean one that holds the public interest..most people would class a grand national winner more worthy than a Gold cup winner...hence Red Rum is better known thatn Arkle.
I don't think any PR person could ever sell what you want here...I'm not sure you could sell Denman being a "titan" even to me taht actually follows the sport.
Denman is far from being a titan..which is a major flaw...he won a handicap..by a similar margin that at least 5 or 6 horses from the last 3 or 4 years would have been capable of achieving in the henessey.
I personally belive that you and many others are getting carried away with "Denmania"...the horse won a handicap comfy...lots do.
I like your idea though...but you will need horses the general public know about...even KS is not a known horse outside racing.
I agree that getting mesdames Goodey and Shetty in on the act is perhaps not the answer to the sport's PR shortcomings, but EC, your post is really just a restatement of the symptoms, while not proposing a course of treatment.
What are your suggestions as to how racing can market itself better to the outside world, and who should do what? It seems to be able to get people through the turnstiles to the tune of 6m a year, but not to successfully reach out to the general public.
At least Warbler is thinking about the issue, as opposed to just saying that hardly anyone knows who Kauto Star is so we must all just give up.
What are your suggestions as to how racing can market itself better to the outside world, and who should do what? It seems to be able to get people through the turnstiles to the tune of 6m a year, but not to successfully reach out to the general public.
At least Warbler is thinking about the issue, as opposed to just saying that hardly anyone knows who Kauto Star is so we must all just give up.
Yes....I have met him before now, but I'm, quite humble in myself, he won't remember me.....I'll pop you a PMOriginally posted by Shadow Leader@Dec 3 2007, 09:30 PM
I've just caught that you've labelled Eddie the Shoe as "just a racing journalist", Warbler. You do realise that's actually a hanging and/or flogging offence?!?!
Sorry folks ... a lot of things to consider, but fear not, I do believe in passionate campaignig; when the window opens etc. In my experience it doesn't open often.,......which is why i extend the invite and challenge the HRA to take a chance?
I will respond to some of the other concerns in due course, as they raise serious points, and deserve debating, I'm not sure TH is the best place to do it though?
I will respond to some of the other concerns in due course, as they raise serious points, and deserve debating, I'm not sure TH is the best place to do it though?
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Simon Cowell then? Look at the current album chart top 3:
Leona Lewis
Shayne Ward
Westlife
All unquestionably shite.
Maybe Katie Price, apparently her book outsold the whole of the Booker prize shortlist contenders. Modern society is crap, it`s full of tasteless thickos who dont know talent from arse.
No disputing that point Euro..none whatsoever
But there is no comparison!!!
There is no way that Dave from Dagenham or Leanne from Lewisham gives a shite about whether Denman will be off the bridle racing against Kauto or ED. You made a very pertinent point earlier in this thread - why should we care what these people think? We have a great sport and we should enjoy it ...enjoy this great rivalry for what it is....two good horses appreciated by genuine racing afficiandos.....if we try too hard to make this appealing to the great unwashed then we are prostituting our principles!
But there is no comparison!!!
There is no way that Dave from Dagenham or Leanne from Lewisham gives a shite about whether Denman will be off the bridle racing against Kauto or ED. You made a very pertinent point earlier in this thread - why should we care what these people think? We have a great sport and we should enjoy it ...enjoy this great rivalry for what it is....two good horses appreciated by genuine racing afficiandos.....if we try too hard to make this appealing to the great unwashed then we are prostituting our principles!
Colin Phillips
At the Start
Ah yes, the good old attitude of so many companies these days...........let's attract as many new customers as possible.......what if by trying to attract those new customers you p@ss off existing customers.....oh! give them the finger we've already got them and their money!!!
An attitude exhibited by Racing UK with their regular promos for upcoming coverage when they should be showing what the customer is paying for.....coverage of racing.
Setanta/Racing UK also exhibited this disregard for their existing customers when they brought in lower subscription charges. If you remember I was rather annoyed when they refused to give rebates on yearly subscriptions already paid. I wasn't shown a lot of support on here with the general reaction being "tough luck".
An attitude exhibited by Racing UK with their regular promos for upcoming coverage when they should be showing what the customer is paying for.....coverage of racing.
Setanta/Racing UK also exhibited this disregard for their existing customers when they brought in lower subscription charges. If you remember I was rather annoyed when they refused to give rebates on yearly subscriptions already paid. I wasn't shown a lot of support on here with the general reaction being "tough luck".
Some seriously clueless responses here.....
Missing the point by a country mile
The PR approach would be to sell the racing experience. The horses and jockeys are transient attrcations and secondary.
This would be targeted at an audience not normally associated with Racing (middle classes). The news items i mentioned above would be the ones that would be seen to generate interest.
Missing the point by a country mile
The PR approach would be to sell the racing experience. The horses and jockeys are transient attrcations and secondary.
This would be targeted at an audience not normally associated with Racing (middle classes). The news items i mentioned above would be the ones that would be seen to generate interest.
Selling something that is a tad disingenious is hardly new and hardly beyond the realms of a capable PR company and gullible public. There's examples littered in popular culture daily as has been mentioned from, music charts, book lists to TV ratings. The Cheltenham Gold Cup is at the apex of the sport and clashes between two key protagonists who've never met, with a winner takes the spoils is normally capable of stirring up interest in most spheres. This can be rolled out beyond the original shelf life if it develops into a rivalry along the lines of a dynasty.
By mathematical definition all sports in the UK are minority, with the exception of football according to the research results when people are asked to rank their favourite. etc. That's not to say that people don't periodically adopt them when something of significance occurs
In 1972 we were asked to believe Chess was a sport and that held global attention for about 3 months. Clearly there was a unique back drop to this, and an ecentric personality involved which helped no end.
In 1983 sailing held sway for about a month as Australia wrestled the Americas Cup from the yanks, and it seemed the whole country adopted the convicts, with results, progress and development bulletins screened every morning
Since I was living in Nottingham in the early 80's I should say that Torvill and Dean drove me up the wall, but millions were transfixed by this non-sport. At the same time Basketball and the NFL enjoyed a short term trendy status with the advent of Channel 4. Teams like the Solent Stars and Hemel Hempstead suddenly found themselves a new audience!!!
In 2005 we had no shortage of non cricket fans, and even self confessed cricket haters, absorbed by the Ashes
More recently we've seen people watching such minority sports as curling. And the boat race still attracts millions of viewers. I work in Oxford, and well over half the city supports Cambridge!!!
Sport is a part of the entertainment industry and if a specific sport starts to slip off the radar it will inevitably stagnate and lose popularity. Boxing would probably be an example to some extent. With the demise of Sportsnight, (who routinely featured British Championship bouts on Wednesday nights) and more latterly Grandstand it's been struggling. The BBC took a chance and tried to re-introduce it, but to little avail, as in Audley Harrison they picked the wrong standard bearer. The Americans haven't produced a heavyweight of consequence now for a few years and its on the wane there too. Ricky Hatton and Floyd Mayweather have been reduced into undertaking a punishing promotional tour to stir up interest in a fight that would have looked after itself 20 years ago.
I still feel that when there's an X versus Y proposition, and when both X and Y can be presented as the two best evenly matched rivals the sport can offer, then people take an interest. We only need to look at the TV or listen to the radio to witness the growth of opinion led shows (those which are seemingly built around a premium rate phone line). I can only conclude that whe the public are presented with a simple proposition that requires a vote for A, or a vote for B, they can't resist the chance to pass up an opinion, regardless of their knowledge. Radio5's been plugging a 'vote for your favourite Christmas film' this week. And then what? listen to Mark Kermode talk about them. Not that you couldn't listen to him talk about them anyway if you felt the need, as I'm sure that piece has been all but recorded already.
Now without a human angle it becomes a slightly more difficult proposition to sell, but hardly impossible. Try this for an example;
Ask any non racing friends to name 10 racehorses? My best guess is that 9 will be jumps horses. Then ask them to name 10 jockeys? and a bet about 8 will be from the flat. Its evidence of sorts (provided my supposition is correct of course) that where jump racings concerned the GP associate with the equine, rather than the human.
If nothing else, this thread as finally found me in the same on an issue as Clive
By mathematical definition all sports in the UK are minority, with the exception of football according to the research results when people are asked to rank their favourite. etc. That's not to say that people don't periodically adopt them when something of significance occurs
In 1972 we were asked to believe Chess was a sport and that held global attention for about 3 months. Clearly there was a unique back drop to this, and an ecentric personality involved which helped no end.
In 1983 sailing held sway for about a month as Australia wrestled the Americas Cup from the yanks, and it seemed the whole country adopted the convicts, with results, progress and development bulletins screened every morning
Since I was living in Nottingham in the early 80's I should say that Torvill and Dean drove me up the wall, but millions were transfixed by this non-sport. At the same time Basketball and the NFL enjoyed a short term trendy status with the advent of Channel 4. Teams like the Solent Stars and Hemel Hempstead suddenly found themselves a new audience!!!
In 2005 we had no shortage of non cricket fans, and even self confessed cricket haters, absorbed by the Ashes
More recently we've seen people watching such minority sports as curling. And the boat race still attracts millions of viewers. I work in Oxford, and well over half the city supports Cambridge!!!
Sport is a part of the entertainment industry and if a specific sport starts to slip off the radar it will inevitably stagnate and lose popularity. Boxing would probably be an example to some extent. With the demise of Sportsnight, (who routinely featured British Championship bouts on Wednesday nights) and more latterly Grandstand it's been struggling. The BBC took a chance and tried to re-introduce it, but to little avail, as in Audley Harrison they picked the wrong standard bearer. The Americans haven't produced a heavyweight of consequence now for a few years and its on the wane there too. Ricky Hatton and Floyd Mayweather have been reduced into undertaking a punishing promotional tour to stir up interest in a fight that would have looked after itself 20 years ago.
I still feel that when there's an X versus Y proposition, and when both X and Y can be presented as the two best evenly matched rivals the sport can offer, then people take an interest. We only need to look at the TV or listen to the radio to witness the growth of opinion led shows (those which are seemingly built around a premium rate phone line). I can only conclude that whe the public are presented with a simple proposition that requires a vote for A, or a vote for B, they can't resist the chance to pass up an opinion, regardless of their knowledge. Radio5's been plugging a 'vote for your favourite Christmas film' this week. And then what? listen to Mark Kermode talk about them. Not that you couldn't listen to him talk about them anyway if you felt the need, as I'm sure that piece has been all but recorded already.
Now without a human angle it becomes a slightly more difficult proposition to sell, but hardly impossible. Try this for an example;
Ask any non racing friends to name 10 racehorses? My best guess is that 9 will be jumps horses. Then ask them to name 10 jockeys? and a bet about 8 will be from the flat. Its evidence of sorts (provided my supposition is correct of course) that where jump racings concerned the GP associate with the equine, rather than the human.
If nothing else, this thread as finally found me in the same on an issue as Clive
EC1
On a break
Some seriously clueless responses here.....
because you don't agree with them Clive?
let me know your views and I'll just agree with you ...it will save you being so rude maybe?
because you don't agree with them Clive?
let me know your views and I'll just agree with you ...it will save you being so rude maybe?
