Arkle Appreciation Group

  • Thread starter Thread starter ArkleSupreme
  • Start date Start date
ArkleSupreme said:
mayes....keep talking yourself into a hole.....you really are totally clueless about Arkle....and living in a dream world where Kauto Star is concerned !

Boy...it must really hurt you that Denman stuffed him 3 times out of their 4 meetings and how lucky you are that Denman had that debilitating heart problem...otherwise it would have been 4 from 4...anyone who knows about Horse Racing realises that would have been the outcome !
Click to expand...
Your as bad as he is mate.....Timeform, the BHA, Ruby, Paul Nicholls and the form book all state clearly Kauto Star was the best chaser we've seen since Arkle but you know better.

I noticed you wrote the same thing in another forum and got exactly the same reasoning put forward to you as I put forward to you RE Kauto V Denman but it just goes right over your head.

As I said before you throw Arkle's 212 about as if it were gospel, maybe it is, but totally ignore the fact that Denman isn't even in the top 5 of the best chasers since Arkle. He won 1 Gold Cup when Kauto was sick and that is that......Kauto will be remembered in racing history forever Denman will be pushed to the backpages and remembered only as a 1 hit wonder.

Winning a Grade 3 handicap against trees is nothing in comparison to winning 5 King george's that would have been 6 had he been right on the day.

If you told anyone any horse in training would win the next 5 King George's they'd have you certified and locked up.......Kauto Star achieved the almost impossible as a chaser he was a legend and your words on Denman are complete and utter garbage.
 
While Denman's Hennessy and Gold Cup are two performances that will live long in the memory, it should be remembered just what an attritional race the Hennessy can be. It was, as it turned out, Denman's last win. He was never quite the same. And I am in the camp that says Kauto was not right the year Denman scalped him in the Gold Cup.

The handicapper also dropped him to 174 for that Hennessy. That's a long way short of Kauto Star's highest OR of 193.
 
I love poetry.

Arkle was a star as super as you get
He was one in a million the one we wont forget
Then along came Kauto another superstar
Not as good as Arkle but not by very far.

Budding Yeats 2012:p
 
There was a kid called dessie who waited all month for his Christmas pressie when he opened the box he saw some socks and in there was a pair of lessies
 
I assume by him you mean Arkle?

If soo did I say he was spoting garbage about Arkle? I hardly think so. I was referring to him saying Mill House was the best chaser ever trained in England and that Denman was a better horse than Kauto.

Did anyone catch what Ruby said about Kauto? Something along the lines of they can say what they want about the greatest chaser's of all time but Kauto did it year in year out for 6 long years. If anyone said to Ruby Denman was a better horse than kauto he'd laugh in their face and rightly so.

Yer man's problem is he can't face the fact that round Kempton Kauto was brilliant and would have made a race of it with Arkle. I just can't accept nonsense like he could have given him 2 stone round there and anyone who believes he could have should take up writing fairy stories.

No one will ever convince me that up to now there's been a horse better than Arkle. He deserves to be top of the pecking order but I maintain he would find more than a few horses that have topped the bill a bit of a a handful and most certainly would not be giving them 2 stone and beating them out of sight like has been suggested on here.

We will never see anything like him again was the world of way too many racing pros but lo and behold in the box next to him Flyingbolt who Pat Taffe rated almost as good.

For me Arkle deserved his 212 rating back then but he'd get nowhere near that rating nowadays. I can just imagine him trying to give 35lbs to Kauto round Kempton, something he almost achieved at Newbury when just beaten by Stalbridge Colonist.

Arkle 12st10lbs V Kauto Star 10st 3lbs :blink: Kauto would be 1/10 and win by half the track
 
...fair enough. You posted your statement in response to my post though. I'm not aware of making any outlandish claims about the horse other than to say that overall he's the best chaser I've seen.

It’s a bit silly arguing over Denman and Kauto. Like I said Denman proved superior to Kauto at Cheltenham and was a powerful carrier of weight, but was not asked to match Kauto round Kempton, where Kauto was brilliant.
 
Last edited:
Who the fook is Denman?

The fact is there's a new kid on the block and he is now the highest rated chaser in training with Timeform:- SPRINTER SACRE 180 + and he hasn't even jumped a 2nd season fence yet.

Arkle is dead RIP and Kauto, gawd love him, has retired and that other fella whathisname? is in a field somewhere in the Cotswold. Some horse called Fred complained to the RSPCA saying his ears were aching because some big fat horse has told him 6 times a day for the last few months about the times he beat Kauto Star.

As they say in the movies the King is Dead long live the King
 
Tanlic said:
For me Arkle deserved his 212 rating back then but he'd get nowhere near that rating nowadays. I can just imagine him trying to give 35lbs to Kauto round Kempton, something he almost achieved at Newbury when just beaten by Stalbridge Colonist.

Arkle 12st10lbs V Kauto Star 10st 3lbs :blink: Kauto would be 1/10 and win by half the track
Click to expand...
You keep quoting these figures, Tanlic. I can't be Rsed to read through the entire thread again but did anyone say anywhere that Arkle could give Kauto 35lbs and beat him, let alone beat him out of sight?

We're talking 20lbs or so difference to maybe bring them together -assuming both were at the very peak of their powers. Those are raw ratings and obviously it would be interesting to see if carrying a very light weight allowed Kauto to run faster.
 
The point I was making is there weren't any Kauto Stars in Arkle day that he raced against.

It's never that straight forward that you can say 20lbs end of Dessie

Kempton

Arkle 12st 7lbs V Kauto Star 11st 1lb I'd still be with Kauto

Arkle 12st 0lb V Kauto Star 11st 5lbs I'd be with Arkle.

Gold Cup

Arkle 12st 10lbs V Kauto Star 11st 5lbs I'd back Arkle to win by 5 lengths or more.
 
I think the argument is that in Arkle's day, MIll House and Flyingbolt were better than Kauto Star. That's certainly Timeform's view and if you look at Grassy's Timeform figures for the last three seasons, Kauto doesn't get much of a mention lately.

To me, the debate is:

Kempton, 3m, Good ground.
Arkle 12-0, Kauto Star 10-7
Both in peak form.
Who wins?

I wouldn't be able to split them and would just want to watch but if one went odds-on and the other odds against, I'd be tempted to back the latter but I'd be happy to lose if it was a true run race that settled the argument!

At Cheltenham, I suspect Arkle would win because he was less flawed.

It isn't an exact science otherwise there'd be no bookies.

I also think Desert Orchid was at least the equal of Kauto Star...
 
Last edited:
Kauto star would beat arkle of levels there's no way any horse in history would give kauto weight and a beating you can stick the ratings of 212 where the sun don't shine your talking up arkle like he was a machine he wasn't he was beaten too he would of not gotten near kauto at kempton arkles form at kempton was shocking well rated under his best not a chance in my eyes kauto would of picked with his speed king kauto
 
Back
Top