Ballydoyle Team Tactics

I wonder if AOB would be asked to explain himself if one of his 3YOs won first time out over a mile and a half in a handicap of 71 after finishing unplaced three times over 5F as a 2YO?

(The answer is - of course he would. He is not a Knight of the Realm after all.)
 
Of course they where 'aware' of the rules. They adapted a position for the hearing that they thought would serve them best. Being aware of the rules and trying to figure out how the f' they're applicable are two different things.

The spirit of the rules should be observed not the letter. The rules should be used to punish people who cheat not used as a stick to beat people going about their business to the best of their ability.
 
Sheikh,

What was your view of this year's Queen Anne, and do you think that the method of Haradasun's win conformed to said spirit?
 
Sheikh,

What was your view of this year's Queen Anne, and do you think that the method of Haradasun's win conformed to said spirit?

No horse was interfered with except by Manning barging through on Finsceal Beo.

I will ask you the question I asked Clive, did Honoured Guest break the rules by bringing the field over to the stands side…something clearly thought out beforehand?
 
Perhaps ... or the rules are fine, but the application of them leaves something to be desired.

Moving this slightly ... who comprises the stewards at various tracks? Surely they should also have been reprimanded for failing to solve the issue on the day of the Juddmonte.
 
Perhaps ... or the rules are fine, but the application of them leaves something to be desired.

Moving this slightly ... who comprises the stewards at various tracks? Surely they should also have been reprimanded for failing to solve the issue on the day of the Juddmonte.

And Ascot then?

If you go the wording of the rules, Ballydoyle broke them within a furlong at Ascot.
 
Sheikh,

What was your view of this year's Queen Anne, and do you think that the method of Haradasun's win conformed to said spirit?

McCabe was careless.Murtagh was wreckless in the Irish Derby. I personally would have banned Murtagh for a month for endangering his fellow jocks.
 
I don't think the bitter taste in many mouths is because a rule was broken. It is because a) the manner in which the BHA have turned it into a media circus and b) the fact the rule only seems to be applied to Ballydoyle horses running in high profile Group events.

As I said early, the French system goes further in that it disqualifies ALL of the horses in the same ownership if interference is caused by a pacemaker, whether deliberate or not. However as I have also stated, how many times has this been enforced in French Group races? I imagine the law is in place to deter blatant and extreme interference being caused, however the French Stewards and authorities obviously have significantly higher degrees of common sense than their British counterparts. Just because a law is in place and is transgressed to a minor extent does not automatically mean it has to be enforced. If that were the case across our wider society out legal and penal system would grind to a halt in days.

As Sheikh rightly says, there is the letter of the law and the spirit. When Galileo cited the origins of the rule amendments this was not irrelevant to this debate (as a less informed member of the forum claimed). It is highly relevant because it first came into being after the 2006 QE II when Dettori behaved like a child in claiming Seamus Heffernan had taken Librettist out of the race on the home turn - even though all visual evidence proved interference was minimal and clearly accidental.

The March amendment to Rule 153 was brought into sharp focue after the Queen Anne when Ballydoyle stood accused by the media of contriving to provide a clear route up the rail for Haradasun via the slight veering to the right of pacesetting Honoured Guest. Many felt the manoeuvre disadvantaged Finsceal Beo however to my mind the filly veered to her left as much as Honoured Guest moved to the right. What is more, once the other jocks sensed the Ballydoyle trio were in Indian file up the rail there was nothing to stop them ensuring they kept Honoured Guest tight to the rail so that he could not move out of the way for Haradasun. Alternatively they could have gone upsides the eventual winner and kept him in – much like Johnny Murtagh did to Stephane Pasquier in the Coronation Cup.

Fuel was added to the fire by Andrew Black sticking his oar on, and rather than telling him to mind his own business, the BHA seemed to be bullied by Black and the British racing media into looking for a scapegoat to prove they had teeth.

Having made their, in my opinion, unnecessary amendment to Rule 153 (iv) they now had to act to make a public show of intention and strength. It was almost underhand the way that they made the amendment without garnering public and industry opinion, nor without the level of media coverage they have allowed to be focused on the first casualty of the amendment.

The race in question in which the “offence” occurred was won fairly and squarely by DOM. No other horse was interfered with, and with out the media storm created mid-season by some very mischievous self-serving individuals, nobody would have batted an eyelid.

Suddenly we are meant to believe that PhoenixTower might have won had DOM not got a run up the inside of his stable mate. Well, Khalid Abdulla has any number of horses he could have put in as a pacemaker himself, and there would have been nothing to stop that horse fencing RRC in thereby forcing DOM to go round horses. In any event he would have still won imo, but that is all academic now. Ironically Teddy Grimthorpe admitted immediately after the race that he had no complaints.

The BHA should be concerning themselves with the real issues and problems associated with the sport instead of dancing to the tune of the likes of Andrew Black and certain TV pundits. Getting embroiled in a public slanging match and wasting time and money with a public “execution” that does the already tarnished reputation of racing no good whatsoever.

Legislation should be about doing what is proper and correct. There is nothing proper and correct about the background to this case, and the way the BHA has conducted itself. They have very obviously set out to make a scapegoat of Ballydoyle and coming at a time when that training operation are on the verge of setting a World Record for Group 1 races won in a season, I totally applaud Willoughby in implying they have less than sportingly taken the gloss off what has been a tremendous achievement.

Chris McGrath of The Independent summed the saga up perfectly when describing the verdict as a staggering triumph of petty literalism over common sense”.
 
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Do BHA rules apply in France?

I often question the "running on it's merits" and "best possibly placing" in UK rules - I doubt that certain French pacemakers are run in such a way and equally i'm not certain some O'Brien horses are the worst horse in the race etc.
 
The French will throw out an entire set of coupled horses if one of them gets done for interference. It's happened to O'Brien - check the Lagadere/Grand Criterium in 2003 I think.
 
Yes, very well put numbersix. I just feel let down by the human need that isntead of enjoying and celebrating things we want to tear it up.

In the press again for all the wrong reasons.

The stewards should be in real trouble for being 'out to lunch' on this one. Surely it is them and not Aidan O'Brien who is 'bringing racing into disrepute'.
 
If you run a horse in a race the paying public and the owner are entitled to feel the horse is the in the race to win it. If it is then ridden in such a way as to deliberately aid another horse in the field there should be a fine and a ban as applicable.

Sadly our stewards won't do that
 
Aren't one or two of us getting pacemaking and team tactics confused? They are, under the rules, separate issues (although I agree the whole team tactics issue as raised as a new rule is rubbish and should be expunged).
 
This is the confusion isn't it? Team tactics are bad stuff, whereas pacemakers are legal, at the moment. But like so many of us have said what the hell is pacemaking if it isn't team tactics? We all know the pacemaker for the stable is going to try to make the pace ideal for their horse - not for the other horses. :eek:

This subject is getting boring now as will go round ...... and round and never agree.

Was reading some ancient article the other day which was complaining about the use of pacemakers, in something like 1855.
 
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