Betting On The New Pope

Just so I know what we're on about, Maurice (and thanks for the response): if I were a bisexual male, married (obviously, to a woman!), and had a lengthy affair with another man, I could be forgiven this if I truly repented.

But, if I'm not bi, but homosexual, I can't be forgiven because I'm 'evil'? Or, I CAN be forgiven for having same-sex affairs if I repent them?

Blimey, this sin/repentance/forgiveness stuff's a bit complicated for non-RC outsiders! :blink:

Anyway, Mo, hope you are enjoying the inauguration of Pope Benny - there's more gold and glitz in the Square this morning than at the Oscars! He looks happy, and apparently he's taken the ritual back to some of its roots, and made it more 'user friendly'.
 
Mortal sin, as I understand it, is a grave sin committed with full knowledge of its gravity and deliberate consent. Some will say it kills the sinner's soul's relationship with God, unless he repents, but that's not what I believe based on what I hear at Mass.

I believe God is all-loving and all-forgiving and that He will never abandon me no matter how much I abandon Him.

To be honest, if I didn't have that belief to hold on to, I wouldn't see much point in living, because I am extremely flawed.
 
Thanks Mo

I asked as only recently I re-read Brighton Rock by that very flawed Catholic :D Graham Greene and in it Rose treats having slept with Pinkie before they get married as a mortal sin and that there is no point in her going to Mass any more.
 
Originally posted by Maurice@Apr 23 2005, 11:13 PM
In that case, it sounds like it is a question of interpretation of orientation.

A homosexual interested in a same-sex relationship (regardless of whether they act upon it or not) is therefore seen as being as wrong as a hetero interested in pre- or extra-marital sex.

There's a consistency there.
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No there f***ing isn't!

In his "Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons" Ratzinger wrote that a homosexual orientation, even if the person is totally celibate, is a "tendency" toward an "intrinsic moral evil".

I don't believe that any dignitary of the church, while, of course, condemning extra-marital sex, has ever described taking part in the act as "evil", let alone just thinking about it! Indeed, though it's a very long time ago, I believe that "impure thoughts" may even have been just a venial sin.

As always, though, there is no point in continuing the debate when one person is dicussing it as an intellectual argument and the other approaches what might be considered a defence of the indefensible as an act of faith.

I have to say though that I have little or no concern that I will be suffering the fires of eternal damnation for whatever hetero-sexual adventures may have befallen me.
 
Originally posted by BrianH@Apr 24 2005, 03:22 PM
As always, though, there is no point in continuing the debate when one person is dicussing it as an intellectual argument and the other approaches what might be considered a defence of the indefensible as an act of faith.
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You're deluding yourself, Brian.

As far as I'm concerned this debate is over too.
 
"You're deluding yourself, Brian"
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I'm can't see how considering that a person condemning another's sexuality as evil is a delusion - though it could be argued that making the assumption that an elderly man cannot be wrong when he makes statements because God has told him what to say is rather akin to delusional superstition.
 
I've asked out of some personal interest: I have two homosexual friends, one of whom is currently unpartnered, but has had several in the past; the other had one very long-standing relationship, but is now in a long-standing and loving relationship with a Spanish man. All three are RC. They attend Mass on Sunday, they like the ritual of the Church, they believe in God.

I cannot, for the life of me, consider them in any way, shape, or form to be 'evil'. In fact, they cannot be more tolerant, kindly, helpful, and in many ways healing friends who I'm delighted to have had touch my life from as far back as 30 years.

I must ask them how they reconcile their 'orientation' with their belief, which they feel strongly about. Perhaps they're like those thousands of two-family Italian men, married by the Church to one wife, while running a second, unblessed family in tandem. And the millions of RCs who more than somewhat miraculously have failed to procreate 15 children, since the advent of the Pill. It seems that there are many people happy to be considered as Catholic who don't adhere to the Church's edicts on sexual activities!
 
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