Bloodline Building
- Thread starter Kauto
- Start date
Miesque
At the Start
What do you want to breed?
You going for NH types, distance, or sprinters, Kauto? NH is doing very well at the moment, with prize monies outstripping the Flat for all race types. Distance Flat horses are a speciality, whereas there are plenty of sprint and middle-distance (7f) races around. Although that does mean there are plenty of sprinters around to contest them. You need to determine what you're going to breed for (bearing in mind that NH buyers won't be seeing any fruition for at least four years and will be paying you accordingly), and then check out the list of the best sires in your group.
How much you want to spend on the sires is the next issue. From very limited but just as expensive an experience as anyone, you're probably best off using proven types to set up with. You can experiment with first-timers, whose fees will generally be cheaper as they establish themselves, but buyers are wary sometimes, and more wary still of breeders without a proven record or connection to another established breeder. If you have neither, I'd suggest sticking with proven sires in the middle-range bracket of fees, say around the £6-10,000 mark.
Check out the Top Sires lists and you'll see what they cost to send your mares to them, and what their progeny is selling for, and, in the case of established animals, what prize money they're winning (after all, you will get a breeder's prize in appropriate races in due course, and every little helps!). Good luck - you'll need it!
How much you want to spend on the sires is the next issue. From very limited but just as expensive an experience as anyone, you're probably best off using proven types to set up with. You can experiment with first-timers, whose fees will generally be cheaper as they establish themselves, but buyers are wary sometimes, and more wary still of breeders without a proven record or connection to another established breeder. If you have neither, I'd suggest sticking with proven sires in the middle-range bracket of fees, say around the £6-10,000 mark.
Check out the Top Sires lists and you'll see what they cost to send your mares to them, and what their progeny is selling for, and, in the case of established animals, what prize money they're winning (after all, you will get a breeder's prize in appropriate races in due course, and every little helps!). Good luck - you'll need it!
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Trouble is in lengthy discussions with broodmares I haven’t come across a single one that is sane in the least, they are all argumentative and trouble from the word go... the stallions are no better as I was telling one.....
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... I know, I know! You want to hear what YEATS has to say about half the slappers he's been sent. "If it wasn't for the extra carrots, I wouldn't get up out of the sawdust for most of them. Whiskers the length of bamboo shoots, cracked hooves, ratty tails - ooh, I say, here comes a rather nice little redhead, though. Check out those cute ears!"
Sheikh
At the Start
They say you should try and duplicate superior mares in a pedigree. There is acres of stuff on the 'large heart' gene which can be passed from the dam to both progeny but only from a Sire to his daughters.
If you look at leading broodmare sire lists you will notice over the years that the same bloodlines are up there all the time. I like Grey Soverign on the bottom half of a pedigree myself.
davidjohnson
At the Start
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2007
- Messages
- 3,434
I'd imagine black type Flat horses for 1m+ as 3-y-os would be Kauto's aim. Good luck, sounds like an exciting project.
On The Bridle
At the Start
As our esteemed forumite and all round breeding expert Miesque has written on another thread Kauto only 14% of breeders make a paper profit.This must make buying you racehorses the better option over breeding your own. I know it's not all about the money but success on the track is probably more efficiently achieved through buying at the sales.
Miesque
At the Start
OTB - pretty much spot on unless you happen to own a farm/stud and have breeding rights to useful stallion. In saying that we turned a paper profit on ours last year.
There is bargain's to be had - my Danehill mare cost less than stud fee of the stallion she was IF to when I bought her...
I'd be looking for Sadler's, Danehill, Gone West or Rahy. A decent Darshaan is never to be passed up (like hens teeth and I haven't found a worthy one yet this year despite having a syndicate and cash ready).
You can find a well put together Danehill for under 20k which is a sensible place to start. You just need someone who'll help you work out if a pedigree is likely to get any updates and isn't going to fleece you for a exorbitant amount of money as an agent fee....
Galileo is going to be a decent Broodmare sire too, imo.
There is bargain's to be had - my Danehill mare cost less than stud fee of the stallion she was IF to when I bought her...
I'd be looking for Sadler's, Danehill, Gone West or Rahy. A decent Darshaan is never to be passed up (like hens teeth and I haven't found a worthy one yet this year despite having a syndicate and cash ready).
You can find a well put together Danehill for under 20k which is a sensible place to start. You just need someone who'll help you work out if a pedigree is likely to get any updates and isn't going to fleece you for a exorbitant amount of money as an agent fee....
Galileo is going to be a decent Broodmare sire too, imo.
Sheikh
At the Start
Any thougts on Mark of esteem to continue the Darshaan legacy ?
Treasure Beach and a few other are bred on the old cross.
Treasure Beach and a few other are bred on the old cross.
Miesque
At the Start
If I had a Mark of Esteem mare I'd be sending her Teofilo in January and packing her off to the sales in November in the hopes Teofilo has a good season with 3yos next year.
Mark of Esteem is useful as a broodmare sire, 437 foals registered out of mares by him of racing age, 65% starters, 37% winners, 3% BT winners.
Mark of Esteem is useful as a broodmare sire, 437 foals registered out of mares by him of racing age, 65% starters, 37% winners, 3% BT winners.
I was very fortunate to be mentored by Songsheet and Paul Thorman, who also co-breeds with Songsheet's outfit, but when let loose to look around for myself, I was rather disappointed to see a lot of proven mares for sale with what look like nearly destroyed feet - very, very flat and some looking positively laminitic. I take it you know what you're doing, Kauto, but if you are a newbie to it, do try to haul out someone from a stud or a bloodstock agent to point out what look like healthy animals and ones where you might at best see just one season before they're done in. It wasn't as if some of these old hags were going cheap, either - they were around the £40K mark due to their own lines, but you weren't going to get many more miles on the clock.
On the subject of mares, I hope everyone will join with me in saying how disappointed we are to hear that Trudi's mare PETROVNA aborted a colt foal today, due January, to HELVELLYN. It was going to be a very exciting event for Trudi and now those hopes are dashed. Rotten old game at times.
On the subject of mares, I hope everyone will join with me in saying how disappointed we are to hear that Trudi's mare PETROVNA aborted a colt foal today, due January, to HELVELLYN. It was going to be a very exciting event for Trudi and now those hopes are dashed. Rotten old game at times.
Miesque
At the Start
I don't mind crappy feet in broodmares - they can be improved and are often neglected. One of mine is shod and I know broodies who wear $600 a set shoes too....
None of Songsheet's mares was shod, Miesque, and neither were Paul's. They all got good treatment from the farrier, of course, but I've been to a few good studs around these parts and not yet seen a single broodmare carrying shoes. I have a feeling that if some people had to shovel out those sort of prices for their feet, they'd be sending them off to the knacker's! You're changing those how often, just out of interest?
Miesque
At the Start
My own mare is done every 6-7 weeks to the tune of 55EUR for a front pair, the mare in $600 shoes is done every 4 weeks....but her progeny have sold for high six and into seven figures repeatedly.
Colin Phillips
At the Start
Commiserations, Trudi.
Thanks for all the comments appreciated greatly. I've been scouring the broodmare sires table for the last few years and come to the conclusion darshaan, saddlers and danehill were the place to be. Obviously with these guys now getting on I'm trying to work out who's going to take their place. The obvious is galilleo but of course the cost involved is going to be astronomical so im trying to find a suitable middle ground. I really do think new approach and ravens pass are going to be successful but oasis dream with the green desert line could be the place to be.
trudij
Senior Jockey
oh gosh - thanks guys, hadnt seen that we had had a mention!!
very sad, but unfortunately if you want livestock,theres a certain % of deadstock. Could have done without this (obviously!) - the first foal on the ground wasnt meant to be an aborted colt !! All being well we are going to try again with him next year - hes a super stallion, and Im very lucky to have the help from Songsheet and Paul Thorman, I really couldnt do it without them (as proved the last time I did it and produced a lobotomised spawn of satan!!)
I love my mare very very much though - and I still have her, things could have been a lot worse. she is and always will be my priority - this was just "one of those things" that really couldnt have been pre-empted.
Wishing you all the best Kauto - sounds really exciting !!!!!
very sad, but unfortunately if you want livestock,theres a certain % of deadstock. Could have done without this (obviously!) - the first foal on the ground wasnt meant to be an aborted colt !! All being well we are going to try again with him next year - hes a super stallion, and Im very lucky to have the help from Songsheet and Paul Thorman, I really couldnt do it without them (as proved the last time I did it and produced a lobotomised spawn of satan!!)
I love my mare very very much though - and I still have her, things could have been a lot worse. she is and always will be my priority - this was just "one of those things" that really couldnt have been pre-empted.
Wishing you all the best Kauto - sounds really exciting !!!!!
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