Breeding records. Frankel and Mill Reef.

[brigust]

Hi everyone.

While I am discussing Brigadier Gerard I have to add, that there is still one significant point that needs to be discussed but is often railroaded by the current media. And that is breeding performances.

Firstly, for those who do not know, the Brigadier was banned by his owners from being used by commercial breeders which heavily restricted his opportunities at stud. But his contemporary Mill Reef suffered no such restrictions. He went to stud in 1973 just like the Brigadier and in his 10 years at stud he covered 30 mares a year, just like Brigadier Gerard.

From his 300 foals Mill Reef produced the winners of 26 Group 1 races in the UK and Europe where the total of Group 1 races was just 41 per year.

Now compare this to Frankel who has covered over 3000 mares, he covered 335 in 2023 alone, and he has now produced the winners of 100 Group 1 races worldwide where there are 460 Group 1 races available.

Mill Reef and Frankel have both produced one horse to reach the Timeform list of horses rated over 135. For Mill Reef it is Reference Point winner of the Epsom Derby, King George and St Leger and for Frankel it is Cracksman winner of two heavy ground Champion Stakes.

I am both a Mill Reef and a Frankel fan though the hype surrounding Frankel at the expense of all others I find disturbing. On this issue I would be interested in the views of others.

 

[maureen]

I was going to ask about breeding because I was of the impression that Brigadier Gerard was a failure at stud ( it isn’t something I know much about, though).And his temperament wasn’t the best.

 

[brigust]

Hi Maureen. BG's temperament was perfect. In his early days his one quirk was he would doze standing up. He wouldn't let me near his head the first time I went to tie him up so I stood in the corner and waited for him to come to me. From then on I made a noise outside his box to make sure he knew I was there and he was always waiting for me when I opened the door.

And although he wasn't a huge success at stud because his owners banned commercial breeders, the life blood of the sport, from using him he wasn't a failure as Simon Caulfield wrote in The Sporting Life. "As the last edition of Stallion Focus showed towards the end of last year, only four British and Irish stallions could claim as good a figure as Brigadier Gerard. There were Rainbow Quest, Saddler's Wells, Kris and Caerleon.

 

[Coach miguel]

Fascinating stuff. Lies,damn lies etc.

 

[edgt]

My father and I ,( dad mainly) awaited first crops from both Mill Reef and Brigadier with great anticipation.
Too young and uninformed to realise Mr (and Mrs ) Hislop's (non commercial) breeding intentions I was impressed with Brigadier's first crop Etienne Gerard, Leonardo da Vinci, Light Cavalry and General (France) .
Then Shirley Heights (by Mill Reef) went and won 2 Derbys and suddenly the rivalry was over, made worse by the Hislops non participation with EBF, Breeders Cup and other incentives .
A pity that an owner's behaviour can reflect on how their racehorses can get perceived with time.

 

[brigust]

My father and I ,( dad mainly) awaited first crops from both Mill Reef and Brigadier with great anticipation.
Too young and uninformed to realise Mr (and Mrs ) Hislop's (non commercial) breeding intentions I was impressed with Brigadier's first crop Etienne Gerard, Leonardo da Vinci, Light Cavalry and General (France) .
Then Shirley Heights (by Mill Reef) went and won 2 Derbys and suddenly the rivalry was over, made worse by the Hislops non participation with EBF, Breeders Cup and other incentives .
A pity that an owner's behaviour can reflect on how their racehorses can get perceived with time.

You could be right edgt but Hislop was adamant the number of US bred horses coming over would wreck the home-bred horses and it looks like he was right. I think there were about 40+ horses rated over 135 in the 25 years surrounding Brigadier Gerard yet the 25 years surrounding Frankel the number is 5. How bad is that?

 

[brigust]

You could be right edgt but Hislop was adamant the number of US bred horses coming over would wreck the home-bred horses and it looks like he was right. I think there were about 40+ horses rated over 135 in the 25 years surrounding Brigadier Gerard yet the 25 years surrounding Frankel the number is 5. How bad is that?

Plus the two top breeding operations Coolmore and Godolphin have not managed to produce a single horse to get on the Timeform list in the last 25 years. Something else the racing media wont tell you.

 

[LUKE]

Interesting thread -it was well before my time but I was under the impression that Brigadier Gerard was poison at stud.

 

[brigust]

Interesting thread -it was well before my time but I was under the impression that Brigadier Gerard was poison at stud.

Hi Luke. Hislop and Co, Brigadier Gerard's owners never had the publicity, being a single mare owner breeder. He was restricted to homebred mares producing foals not for sale and he was banned from being used by commercial breeders, which was suicide. He still did comparatively well even against stallions who were open to all including commercial breeders. We will never know what the results would have been had he been given the opportunities all other stallions were given but I am pretty confident he would have done substantially better.